Ilan from Kitely graciously agreed to do an interview here and i would like to know what you may be curious about. he started messing with OpenSim two years ago and his focus is using facebook as the account tool and “cloud” technology to dish up grids
i am interested in things like uploading and downloading OAR and IAR files, hardware, time for deployment, concurrency estimates, and custom avatars
if you have questions, drop a comment here and we’ll ask him this week (it’s an email interview). thanks! =) *happy Monday - good luck with your week!*
to the cloud! =)
I would like to know his thoughts on a development scenario like we have had over the last year. Say a grid that is on weeknights for 8 EST to midnight for three builder/scripters and weekends for 1 PM EST to midnight.
Kitely opens up development possibilities such as people individually working in a “stick” environment or even a few people dialing into a home machine and then uploading their OARs and assets to the “cloud”.
I would also like to know what “on-demand” means – is it preset times that you purchase such as the Amazon Elastic Cloud? To me, “on-demand” would truly mean grids that spin up based on curent demand, not forecasted demand. Thanks!
David Miller
28 Mar 11 at 7:42 am
I have just posted this on HG, maybe you could also ask the questions for us to the man directly.
“Would it be possible to have the URI login details for the grid? I am cautious about downloading an .exe without any kind of verification or terms of service. Also a little concerned there is very little on Facebook about Kitely to be honest nothing.
For all I know the .exe could be harvesting my Facebook details and considering this is a RL account a little worrying. Would love to check out this system as it all looks great, but I am not going to download an .exe by someone I can not trace.
This does bring me to an important question, why does it have to be done through Facebook, it is not a Facebook app, and all it is using is your login details, so why can an account not just be set up on the Kitely website if you don’t want to use your Facebook details.
Maria you mention about DMCA, where would they be sent. I do not see any address of the company or where it is registered. Which takes me back to my concern about the .exe.
I hope my mind can be put at easy here over these matters as it is nice to have a region set up so quickly, but I do know other grids can do that without using my Facebook details, even if Land prices are higher. But what is the price of my RL details.”
Meco
28 Mar 11 at 11:07 am
hi Meco, i saw your question on HG and it is a very good one. many people will have issues with exes or not be able to launch them in some corporate settings
Kitely needs more online presence as well to help assure people like you and me =)
Ener Hax
28 Mar 11 at 12:20 pm
My question is:
Would Kitely see a role for the FaceBook Graph API in its future? That is, in-game status sharing back to FaceBook
For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Platform
Breen Whitman
28 Mar 11 at 12:37 pm
Given that Ilan has promised Facebook will eventually not be the only login path, my biggest question for him is “Who are the target customers?”
Lalo Telling
28 Mar 11 at 9:13 pm
Hi Ener,
I saw your tweet and decided to drop by.
Mico, I’ve already answer your question in the Hypergrid Business comments section so please forgive me if just copy/paste it here:
I respect your skepticism and caution, for many people in the OpenSim community we came out of nowhere.
All Kitely worlds are located in the same grid but each world has it’s own login credentials so that if your password is compromised in one world you don’t become vulnerable across the entire system. This is not compatible with how grids currently work so you can’t login using the standard grid access methods inside your viewer and instead must rely on our plugin to launch the viewer with the credentials for you. As an aside, that is also one of the reasons why teleporting between worlds is currently not available. Another is that we need to make changes to our backend so that teleporting triggers world provisioning. This is in our roadmap.
Our .exe isn’t signed yet because we haven’t gotten around to buying an SSL certificate.
We haven’t finished the TOS because we didn’t expect to go viral so quickly and we intend to get some legal consulting before we create potential long term legal liabilities.
We don’t have an office address because we still work out of two different homes.
We chose Facebook because it prevents a lot of early griefing which we don’t have the resources to deal with at this time. We will provide additional authentication options in the future.
You can google us to see that we are mentioned in IVC-online, Israel’s biggest portal for venture capital firms.
We are legit, I hope you’ll accept my invitation to try us out. In any case, all your concerns will be addressed in due time. We are just out of the gate so please don’t be too quick to judge our very unpolished state.
Ilan Tochner
28 Mar 11 at 9:47 pm
Hi Breen,
We’ve actually considered using the FaceBook Graph API as an option for enabling two-way interaction between people inside and outside virtual worlds.
If we had endless resources then we would definitely invest time to implement this. Given that we don’t, it will be up to the community to tell us what features they think are most important for us to focus on.
Ilan Tochner
28 Mar 11 at 10:01 pm
phew Ilan! i was reading your FAQ and Privacy Policy earlier and that was a lot of work. many people don’t realise how much work those mundane things are
i know you have been at it for two years and still have loads to do. social presence is important online and takes a lot of time in and of itself. that social presence will help set anxiety aside for others
i have been in twitter for 3 years now (april 1st, 2008) and doing the blog for about the same. i think there is a certain level of trust for me because of the breadth of my online presence – in other words, people don’t think of me as fly-by-night operation – mainly because i have put so much online. i have far too much time invested in Ener Hax to do anything intentionally bad or harmful
your work has been behind the scenes in setting up your offering but now you are starting to get some street cred and will need to invest serious time in that as well to help your success. it’s just like Coca-Cola – they have not changed their formula for years but still have to advertise daily to keep their competitive advantage
as a two person show, you will be spending an hour a day or so to build a decent online presence and gain the trust of the OpenSim and Second Life community. it is a shame that it is not enough to just have a great offering, you also have to yell from the rooftops about it (just like Coke)
i’ll send some questions via email probably Wednesday night after a few more people post comments here. the comments from Meco, Breen, and Lalo are ones that i respect a lot and addressing those (as you have) goes a long way
good explanation on the SSL – you’ll want a reputable one and that can cost over $100 per year but it is well worth it =)
Ener Hax
28 Mar 11 at 10:02 pm
Hi David,
On demand means it is there when you need it. In order for that to happen in a reasonable amount of time we need to forecast demand and have enough servers ready to immediately launch OpenSim instances on. This is also due to the fact that Amazon charge by the hour and we charge by the minute. Provisioning a server just when a person presses the “Enter World” button would result in an unacceptably long delay until you had a working OpenSim instance up and running.
Just to be clear, this entire process all happens automatically, i.e. the number of active servers and reserved servers goes up and down without us needing to manage the process.
Ilan Tochner
28 Mar 11 at 10:10 pm
Hi Lalo,
Our initial target customers are the people who have made virtual worlds their life and work tirelessly to sell others on that vision. We hope that what we bring to market can help people such as yourself sell your VW-based solutions and services to your existing and potential clients.
Going forward we see virtual world and augmented reality based services being more widely accepted by the general public. At which point we believe we will transition to become a mostly transparent utility on top of which people build their value added services. A type of Amazon Web Services for virtual worlds if you will.
Ilan Tochner
28 Mar 11 at 10:23 pm
Thanks Ener,
We will definitely need to spend a lot of time to build the type of web cred you’ve attained. I hope interviews by people such as yourself can help us start the process.
Ilan Tochner
28 Mar 11 at 10:28 pm
Hi
I am pretty surprised there’s not been more questions on this subject
As to who are Kitley Ltd no email to contact you on the site in fact no contact us and as Erner pointed out privacy and faq’s done but the most glaring omission is no terms of service at all
you need legal advice to set up you say but any limited company wherever they reside should do that as part one of opening up any project
your .exe (unsigned) plugin well why prey tell me is that writing too my pc’s registry absolutely no need what so ever to do so if it’s just a Uri hook to a viewer your plugin also allows you access too my facebook,
Includes name, profile picture, gender, networks, user ID, list of friends, and any other information
to me classic harvesting of information.
Your DMCA policy
“What should I do if I find someone is using my content without permission?”
If you find the unauthorized use of your content in some other company’s service (i.e., not in Kitely) then you should send a DMCA takedown notice to that company.
Ok that can be acceptable in part but you have no contact details at all on your site so you can not/will not do anything?
After all the CDS/Redzone problems in Second Life and that involved only IP addresses to an avatar you in fact you are gaining that to real life facebook details and IP addresses!
I am pretty shocked people are jumping at this like Lemmings over the cliff.
If your genuine fine you will be able to dispel all this but as this is the way you have started out
ill say Buyer Beware.
Lateral Thinking
29 Mar 11 at 5:48 am
well written Lateral and y9ou touched on a few things i was thinking as well. the DMCA thing was one i wanted to ask about but had not thought of it your way. when i read it, i was nervous about some griefer wanting to mess with me and all someone has to to do is make a complaint and we would come down? so we are presumed guilty and then need to prove our innocence. that made me twinge and think about the Adult policy in Second Life. it was used to hurt store owners which then hurt estate owners. all someone had to do was get a few people to say that Adult content was in a store and SL would change the entire sim’s rating. that meant many people were cutoff from hitting that sim which then took a week or two to have Linden reverse the rating change. that was one factor that led me to sell the estate
i think one thing any “new” company has to do is realize that there are many people that feel they were wronged by SL (or an OpenSim situation) and thus are going to be very critical. this is fine and a healthy company will be able to address those issues
Kitely’s contact info is missing but probably not intentionally, but probably related to developing their website. i came across Ilan via LinkedIn but “legal” information would be good to have on the site
and Lateral, you are never wrong with “Buyer Beware”
Caveat Emptor is one of my guiding mantras and it is the reason we have our own server – it is the closest thing to being the full owner of our efforts and if we fail or succeed, we are the ones to blame – no on else
thanks Lateral! =)
Ener Hax
29 Mar 11 at 6:12 am
Ilan, you are doing a great job in addressing key concerns and i do like your “Satisfaction” forum – that platform does well for fast and nimble forum-like posting. i have used in on other sites and it does well
these concerns here will be worked into the questions i send you, just so that people will see it in a post – some of your answers will go unread by the community if just in these comments – thank you for engaging so much – this takes a lot of your time but is a needed step for your success =)
Ener Hax
29 Mar 11 at 6:15 am
Hi Lateral Thinking,
You’re right, our business, operations and development are not ready for prime time yet. We’re just 2 guys working from home who had just made their public website available and were swept by some very welcome traction waaaay sooner than they had expected. We were sure we would have a lot of time to take care of all the missing pieces before anyone noticed us and now that we’ve gone viral we’re trying to do a million things at once and a lot of urgent tasks are still pending. I’ve already included the spirit of our terms of service in our FAQ but you’re right that that is not our legal agreement.
Our plugin is based on the open-source Firebreath cross-platform plugin architecture (thank you Firebreath team :-)). Our own code only reads the registry to find which viewer is registered for the secondlife:// URL’s. The plugin installer writes to the registry because that’s part of installing a browser plugin. I’m not aware of other writes to the registry but if you find any let us know and we’ll ask the Firebreath team why they are required.
I appreciate your privacy concerns but more than 600 million people share the Facebook information you mentioned with the millions of websites that use Facebook Connect without ever installing anything from us. Every time someone presses a “Login with Facebook” button anywhere on the net they are sharing that information and sometimes a lot more.
Our account creation process only asks that you give Kitely access to your basic profile information so we can automatically create your account. We ask for access to your groups information so we can allow you to select which one you wish to give access to a world.
As for DMCA takedown notices, I practically live inside our support forums and have been answering people’s questions and requests for days. If you want to find me then that is where to do so. Our support page enables you to send me private messages. I know that is not the legal requirement for DMCA. We’ll get to it once we have a proper office in place.
We are currently subsidizing everybody’s usage, if our free service isn’t appealing enough for you to use then continue using what does suit your needs and, hopefully, you’ll be willing to give us a try once we’ve taken care of everything your cautious about.
Have a great day, I’ll see you everywhere else you’ve copy/pasted your comment ;-)
Ilan Tochner
29 Mar 11 at 3:37 pm
Is Kitely a Limited company?
Meco
29 Mar 11 at 4:34 pm
Thank you Erner for the use of your site to bring what I and I see you thought were questions of relevance that’s all,
so if you don’t mind I will give my exclusive comment here as this is where I first picked up on the thread and I see the other site I used has turned in to the second coming of the web 2.0 over this ;)
If you wish to remove my comments you’re more than welcome to and absolutely no offence would be taken as I am a bigger person than that.
Right I will readdress my questions. You’re 2 guys doing a project no issue at all with that all I am asking for is some concrete contact details etc and get your terms sorted out as you have stated you have been 2 years in development so why not spend a few hours getting those basics set.
As you seem to be posting around and about, which takes time wouldn’t it be better spent to correct a few points for yourselves?
Asking people to use LinkedIn as a place to contact is not really the way to go, is it? LinkedIn is not proof you are real or exist and anything you have created on LinkedIn is correct.
It only takes a few minutes to set up an email catch all for your site’s domain name, which may elevate some concerns.
If you’re going to ask real people for real details and facebook accounts, show your real contacts, data protection springs to mind. For as Meco has pointed out above are you a limited company do you really have trademarks and copyrights as you’re stating on your site if you’re a limited company post your registration number?
oh and last point for now llan I am nothing to what you will face out there in the virtual world community as in questions and problems that will arise that you will have to face especially when asking them to launch an unsigned .exe on their own systems on top of what I have pointed out.
I hope now you understand llan why I am pointing this is out and hope you can see it is really constructive critique or are you just swept away with your own hype?
And for your info Viral is something like this not a few hundred users trying something for free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0 (oops sorry I cut and pasted is that wrong):)
Have fun in your endeavour
Lateral Thinking
30 Mar 11 at 11:31 am
i won’t censor you Lateral – i am all about free speech and your feedback is very mellow compared to some things on the SL blogs!
the TOS is a big thing to me too because LL really yanked people around with it. when they changed it to say they could use anything you make as if it was theirs, that lost many people and was horrible of them to do
“viral” is a fun term to use but truly being viral is unintended and massive =)
thanks Lateral, please feel free to speak your mind because only having opinions that support my own never help me grow and there are many others out there that have the same thoughts (i am one and do have a “fake” LinkedIn!!!) =)
Ener Hax
30 Mar 11 at 12:01 pm
dang Lateral! 66 million hits on the video, wow!!!! =O
Ener Hax
30 Mar 11 at 12:02 pm
Hi Lateral, Ener,
The reason I’m posting around the web is that I’m fighting against a FUD campaign that is aimed at keeping Kitely from achieving self-sustaining size. Had I not had to do that then I could have spent my time doing some of the many things that we still need to take care of.
We have spent more than two years working on actually building Kitely, and had just started creating all the site documents when we were noticed. As Ener correctly stated in this thread, even what we had written had taken us a lot of time to write. Every paragraph is also a decision about company policy and every word counts.
My LinkedIn profile has been active for several years now, you can look at when I got my first recommendation to confirm this. As someone who was on the fast tack in his early 20s and left to pursue the life of an entrepreneur, my LinkedIn profile IS my professional reputation. You can Google our names to find corroboration for everything in our LinkedIn profiles, most of the people who recommended us are now in top management positions in different companies, I am linkedInd to quite a lot of executives in big companies who would not have risked their own reputation had they not known I was legit. I have a profile in IVC-online a pay-walled (very expensive at that) site aimed at investors which follows Israeli startups. IVC-online even named Kitely Company of the Month for February 2009. You can doubt everything I say but if we were not who we say we are then those very serious people would not have wanted to be associated we us.
The kitely.com domain has been registered to us since 2-dec-2008 (see http://who.godaddy.com/whois.aspx?domain=kitely.com&prog_id=GoDaddy)
As I said before, we currently work from home. We don’t intend to share our home addresses and personal phone numbers with the world. As a person hiding behind an alias asking a person who’s picture and real identity is being posted in multiple high profile blogs, I would expect that you would respect that.
As I twitted yesterday, we’ve just retained GKH, one of Israel’s leading law firms, to help us close the gaps in our corporate readiness, lack of TOS, and other issues that people usually don’t inquire about for a startup that is less than a week into its public beta.
The trademark notices on our site that are claimed by us use the TM mark which is the mark for unregistered trademarks. That is what we put in place until we got around to registering them (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark). Now that we are using them in a documented state and have some legal consul, rest assured that we will also file to register them.
Copyrights are owned by content creators without need for registration. I spent many nights writing all the text on our site so that makes Kitely the copyrights holder. I would expect someone from the Second Life community to know that so it is clear that you even raising copyrights as some sort of potential problem is just another FUD attempt.
As I’ve explained multiple times in the blogs which you posted to, the .exe is not signed yet because we haven’t gotten around to buying an SSL certificate, signing the plugin and uploading it to our site. Part of the reason I haven’t been able to do so is that I need to constantly spend time defending our reputation from people who wish to kill us while we are small by raising doubts in other people’s minds about our legitimacy.
Viral is not just a function of the number of registered users, it is a function of how quickly people are learning and discussing our existence. Do you know of many startups where people form big companies started trashing them when they had less than 100 users? The fact that you are questioning us in multiple blog posts is a testament to the “Kitely revolution” meme going viral. Our signup numbers will start growing virally as well when we resolve some of our early growing pains.
Hi Ener,
I also hate it when companies make claims for other people’s creations and so made sure our FAQ clearly states that your content is your own and that “We make no claim to your creations and we will not use them without your permission” see our FAQ which is pointed to from our (currently) missing TOS page:
http://www.kitely.com/#!faq#who-owns-the-content-i-upload-or-create
We are working to address all the legitimate issues you have raised. Until we are done, we’ll continue providing a free service which people love using on an as-is basis. If you want to sit this one out then feel free to do so. I just hope that once we close all the gaps that bother you that you will start judging us on our merits instead of trying to find faults in technicalities we openly own up to.
Ilan Tochner
31 Mar 11 at 9:32 am
what is FUD? don’t try to address purely negative people, there are always people who will hate anything
just keep forging forward, just like you are doing =)
i really could give a flip if anyone sez anything bad about me – anyone can say anything they like – i can’t (nor would want to) control anyone
we have been building our thing on our own as well. subQuark has spent about $3000 so far, i place a modest value of about $15,000 for my time (500 hours at $30 per hour) plus the blog takes about an hour a day and collects no revenues
add to that little costs like the silicone bracelets, print samples, and subQuark’s time (i don’t know what his time has been, but seeing what he has written, i’d say 200 hours is a very conservative guess)
we both have families and real day jobs and do some freelance work. i try not to do too much side work but subQ does some stuff for media strategy and works with a radio personality, a political candidate, and three up and (hopefully) coming bloggers
i think many OpenSim endeavors are done grassroots simply from the opensource and free nature of it. while i would love it if we had venture capital, or more appropriately grant funding, that’s not a reality
spending a year or two of staying up till 2 AM on most nights is a price i am willing to pay because i believe in subQ’s vision and know it can make a difference
now for you, i don’t think you need to offer your service for free. it is nice having free things but often free things are seen as not having any value. look at Linden Lab, nothing is free except creating an account. no free land, nada
i have been doing flash work for 10 years and almost anything i have done for free has required more work and received less appreciation than the things i charged normal rates for
Ener Hax
31 Mar 11 at 9:53 am
Thanks Ener,
I apologise I don’t have time to write a long reply, I’m gettin on a plane in a few hours and I have yet to pack :-p
Ilan Tochner
31 Mar 11 at 10:18 am
Hi Ener,
FUD = fear, uncertainty and doubt.
A common political marketing tactic used to discredit people or companies, e.g. saying “Mr. Candidate will raise taxes” when Mr. Candidate never even mentioned the possibility of doing so.
Now, I really have to fly ;-p
Ilan Tochner
31 Mar 11 at 11:02 am
[...] Kitely defend themself on what cloud/facebook questions do you a have? at i live in science land [...]
Kitely using ripped content? Already? - SLUniverse Forums
31 Mar 11 at 11:20 am
llan I have only posted here and once on the other blog I haven’t used any other mediums too relay my concerns but hey why should you believe me you have to take me on face value but I’m not in your position I would not have launched half cocked.
Maybe our questions and concerns are viral too?
You’re the one that has too comply to your users in the service you are offering. And dot the I’s and the T’s as a business. When you confirm you’re a LTD company your lawyers will need to get on with that quickly. That is something you should have checked out long before launching beta or no beta.
The constructive critique which I pointed out was to impart many more years knowledge in the virtual world space and I would presume business than you have, Believe me this is the tip of the iceberg to what you will get out there.
But you have all this experience in business as you say and two years work on it why didn’t you close beta the project that way you would have found steady growth and easy rectifying time of these glaring omissions as I perceive your business model as it is now.
First rule in business cover your own back.
And as for F.U.D (fear uncertainty and doubt) that’s all you’re making not anyone that has asked what they believe are important questions.
Lateral Thinking
31 Mar 11 at 11:43 am
I’ve watched the Kitely revolution play out with fascination, and I always consider it a sign of success when a new endeavour immediately encounters fierce criticism. In fact, whenever I launch a new business in SL, I’m worried when it’s met with initial silence–any buzz is a good buzz.
In this case, Kitely is getting some choice “advice” from folks like who’ve never started a company in their life.
It’s also true that most startups at this stage don’t have a formal TOS as such and will suffer many “major gaps” as one person put it on Twitter.
It is clearly time for Kitely to get their TOS together and upgrade their operation. Having hired a legal firm, it appears they’re doing that. Time will tell if they’ll do it right, but my sense is that they’re on the right track.
Most of all, it’s telling that 100% of the complaints about Kitely are either superficial (“no TOS”), ignorant (anyone who trashes Facebook connect loses credibility on the spot) or totally bunk (“Kitely is enabling content theft”).
No one has any substantial criticism of the product itself–its quality, its implementation, or the roadmap. The negativity is all noise.
Ener, I agree with you that while open debate is crucial, the worst of the whiners are best ignored.
Gabe
31 Mar 11 at 11:53 am
nicely summed up Gabe! =) any new endeavor has growing pains and any online notice of them is huge – good or bad (to an extent)
many endeavors come and go and this is Kitely’s “15 minutes of fame”
it’s a great time to see what concerns are out there and start plugging holes (like TOS, contact info, etc)
and like Gabe said, much advice is being given from people that have not done their own business – but any advice has some merit to it, even if only a tiny bit
i’d be most nervous about Kitely credits and would much rather use PayPal – but i can’t qualify for Kitely service because Ener Hax is not a real person on Facebook (it does not fit our needs but i do like the concept quite a bit)
so forget the heavy FUD, time will win out on your side if you are sincere and provide a valuable service =)
Ener Hax
31 Mar 11 at 12:14 pm
Well, I think the thing with Kitely is that they are perceived as having got it 90% right and people are concerned about the remaining 10%. On the other hand, a lot of people have observed that this is not necessarily the best model for a high-traffic shopping experience at present. It is, however, very relevant for activities that are event-driven as much of education is as it potentially gets us away from the oft-heard criticism that “edu sims are empty most of the time”. Anyway, my question is one that Ener raised previously but then didn’t ask, viz what is the maximum useful concurrency that has actually been tested (and how much scripting was there on that sim — I understand that’s a “how long is a piece of string” question). As a supplementary, I’d also like to ask what happens when a sim crashes.
Graham Mills
31 Mar 11 at 1:16 pm
Sorry to say, but all those barking cries about theft are equal to ZERO. The due legal process first requires that Opensim Content Creators establish and prove their Ownership Titleship, check the expert article:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/39525822/Licensing-Considerations-Virtual-Worlds-02-2010
Eurominuteman
31 Mar 11 at 1:26 pm
nice one Graham and it makes me think that we need some type of benchmark standard in general for OpenSim
from years of use and 100s of thousands of users, we “know” that an SL sim is about 15,000 prims, maybe 500-600 “normal” scripts, and 55 people) my best SL sim ran like this and many scripts were Sion chicken ones)
crashing issue is a good question as is what the user sees – ie, “your world has crashed, please log in again to continue”
Ener Hax
31 Mar 11 at 1:27 pm
thanks on the link Euro minuteman! self-education is important and much needed. Kitely is doing something a little differently that what we have seen so far and we all need a more thorough understanding of these issues (i must admit Euro, that i am nervous about uploading my OARs onto anyone else’s system, it is 100% up to me to protect it and the fewer players involved in its deployment means the easier it is for me to keep it secure)
thanks again, your info is very useful and relevant to any virtual world discussion
Ener Hax
31 Mar 11 at 1:33 pm
[...] has been very good about answering comments on http://iliveisl.com/what-cloudfacebook-questions-do-you-a-have/ and i have compiled those questions and some of my own for a “formal” interview (just [...]
any other Kitely questions? at i live in science land
31 Mar 11 at 10:34 pm
Wow, so this is where all the action is.
Quite amusing!
The guys at Kitely seem a bit touchy. Well, my advice is to post your remarks on issues that are brought up to you, and leave it at that. You really don’t have to run around the web defending yourself. By posting messages everywhere, you run the risk of wording something wrong and accomplishing the opposite affect than what you are after. We virtual people will still keep talking about you and you can not control what we all say.
In the end, you will be judged by what you do, not what you say. Which is probably why LL has so many problems, lol.
You know what is interesting? We have yet to see an iteration of SL that has not had some success. So chill out.
Medhue
1 Apr 11 at 4:21 am
Things depend on your Use Case…
If you have a Zero Cost Use Case, check Opensim Standalone group in Facebook for more comparable options http://ht.ly/4r1rG
If you want a Free barebone config, get an Opensim Quad-sim Standalone with 180,000 prims http://ht.ly/4r1Kx
Eurominuteman
1 Apr 11 at 6:38 am
nicely put Medhue and very wise advice =) it is indeed what we do, it is far too easy to talk up a good story
nice links Euro, that facebook group looks good and i like anything with MOODLE (use it in my day job) =)
Ener Hax
1 Apr 11 at 12:13 pm