from Kitely founder Ilan to you!
You’ve heard it here first: we decided to add both email/password based logins and Twitter based logins in our next build. Adding Twitter may delay things by a few days but, if there are no unexpected complications, it should be ready around the end of this month / early next month.
Our thinking was, why not enable avatars who have many Twitter followers (I’m picturing pink hair for some reason… ;-)) to use their Twitter account with Kitely?
wow, knock me over with a feather! this is very exciting news and opens up Kitely to everyone!
well done Ilan and Oren, well done! =)
Thank you Ener, we can’t wait to have you over :-)
Ilan Tochner
12 Feb 12 at 9:17 pm
Way to go!
Kitely is definitely looking like a viable home for Excelsior Station. To the point that I am going to start working on building an OpenSim 30regionMega of the Station in anticipation of Kitely adding megaregion support.
Sarge Misfit
12 Feb 12 at 9:57 pm
Thank you Sarge, we look forward to having you on Kitely.
Please note that larger worlds will take some time to roll out. We have a few more things we need to check off our todo list first (teleports between worlds, KC as virtual currency, etc.).
Also, larger worlds might not go up to 30 regions right away. We’ll need to do a lot of testing to determine which sizes work well with our on-demand model (worlds need to start up within a reasonable amount of time or they’ll become unusable).
Ilan Tochner
12 Feb 12 at 10:11 pm
No problem, Ilan. I know its all in development. I’m just an old Boy Scout. Be prepared :-D
I’m basing my plans on your current rates and what I had planned. The best rate I can get for an AuroraSim host is $50/month for a 1024×1024, the equivalent of a 16region Mega. If Kitely keeps the same rates for a Mega as for multiples of singles, then I can get twice the space at that same rate. If the actual end result is more than 16, though less than 30, I’ll still do well.
Btw, AuroraSim does seem to use less resources than an OpenSim megaregion, and its a single region, which may help with the startup time. Maybe something to test out.
Either way, I’m seeing much more positive news about Kitely than I do about others.
Sarge Misfit
12 Feb 12 at 10:58 pm
Thank you for your endorsement Sarge :-)
Our goal is to keep things simple and affordable. That said, we’ll only be able to work out the exact details once we thoroughly test how large worlds behave on our system.
Ilan Tochner
13 Feb 12 at 12:07 am
Exciting news! I have started to follow Kitely more closely now and I seems really promising….
Mera
13 Feb 12 at 1:34 am
Thank you Mera :-)
Ilan Tochner
13 Feb 12 at 1:41 am
This is all good news Ilan and I hope to return to the cloud soon. I agree with Sarge, Aurora regions are a single sim that has expanded borders and the load is a lot less than an Opensim mega region. Anyway, my future plans require some kind of mega region be it Opensim or Aurora because border crossing will never work well for virtual sailing. They are rubbish in Opensim, Aurora and Second Life although perhaps SL are not the worst. The best crossings I have found were on InWorlz but they lack vehicle physics presently so it was only an avatar test.
Hypergrid is also a requirement. Absolutely!
Anyway, I look forward to checking it out again and blogging on my experience.
Gaga
Gaga
13 Feb 12 at 2:45 am
[...] on Ener Hax’ blog there are some very interesting news regarding Kitely – a 3D Virtual World “on demand” [...]
Interesting news regarding Kitely – 3D VW on demand service | Mariis' explorations of 3D remediation
13 Feb 12 at 3:51 am
It is good news. I started using Kitely, and it works pretty well, but I don’t like the Facebook tie up. I’d rather keep that totally separate.
Keith Selmes
13 Feb 12 at 7:31 am
okay Sarge and Gaga, i need some education. i have read what both of you have said about Aurora and i understand mega regions okay because i turn that on and off for my stick worlds, but i don’t grasp Aurora Sim very well
i have read about it on their blog but still don’t understand what it is (i need to be spoon fed like a baby)
isn’t Aurora Sim a fork from OpenSim? if so, doesn’t that mean it no longer has all of the fixes and new features getting put into OpenSim every week? or does it somehow grab those updates as well?
the number of fixes and features in the last year of OpenSim dev are staggering!
and if Kitely were to offer Aurora Sim, doesn’t that mean they would be needing to do two sets of virtual world platforms?
i’m not trying to be antagonistic, but there is a beauty and value to the simplicity of everything being the same so that my OAR is compatible with everything (well, with a lot of things). i do love mega regions and even with just a 4 regions to one mega, it would mean much smoother use of Enclave Harbour if we went to 4 mega regions (vs. the current 16)
i value what both of you say and it forms a lot of my understanding of this all (it’s just a matter of it getting through my thick avatar skull!) =)
Ener Hax
13 Feb 12 at 7:58 am
Hi Ener
Yes, Aurora dose have a somewhat different architecture and is more modular than Opensim but a lot remains the same or compatible – your OARs are fine. Originally, the devs at Aurora did want to keep the two formats compatible but over time that has become less than likely in many respects. However, Rev did code a bridge module to allow HG teleports to Aurora from Opensim grids. You would notice improvements over Opensim in avatar movement for example which is much smoother assuming you are on a well sim. Vehicles such as cars and flying machines do actually work better but currently wind sailing is broken – much to my disappointment. Generally though a lot is the same. As for mega regions which you understand as a cluster of single 256X256 standard regions linked together where the borders ceased to exist as far as the server is concerned so vehicles and avatars cross without interruption and faltering, in Aurora code there is just one region involved. Not 4 or 9 or 16. Just one!
What happens is you get to set the border area and, as Sarge pointed out, if you set the region to 1024 X 1024 then the area would turn out to be the same as 16 sims in an Opensim mega region. If you set it to 512 X 512 then it is a little 4 X 4 mega region. In Aurora they don’t call these expanded sims mega regions. They call them Var Regions (variable size regions). So, if you want a really really big area then you could create a 2048 X 2048 and that would be a whapping 64 basic Opensim regions!
What is really great about var regions is that, where a mega needs resources for each region in it’s cluster, var regions remain a single region and thus uses very little more than a single regions resources. So you can get a lot of area for you single region which is what might work for Kitely if they use Aurora code for expanding borders. In fact a number of people in OSgrid have said they would like to see the Opensim team use this feature too.
As for all the work going into Opensim I totally agree, the effort has been fantastic and the platform has become much more stable in the more recent releases. But so too has Aurora and you could pick and choose between the two what you like. They both have clear advantages and advanced features that we don’t see in Second Life. Just one from Aurora, terrain shaping is 1000 time faster even on a whole var region! On the other hand Opensim hypergrid has improved no end. A short while ago it had problems and it wasn’t unusual to teleport and end up naked on arrival or all white because your inventory got lost on route. You would even loose stuff for good. That doesn’t happen now and it becoming a fundamental part of the Opensim experience.
Personally, I actually would like to see collaboration between Aurora and Opensim but no everyone sees eye to eye which probably means Aurora will remain a fork of Opensim. I really think some of it’s code could be ported to work with Opensim though. After all, it wasn’t that long ago that you could actually still connect and Aurora simulator to OSgrid and find it work ok.
The Open Metaverse has still a long way to go and many more surprises I would bet. Ain’t that exciting?
Check this out for more info…
http://metaverse-traveller.blogspot.com/2011/06/aurora-sim-brave-new-virtual-world.html
Gaga
P.S damit! that was so long I could have blogged it!
Gaga
13 Feb 12 at 9:00 am
I’m not sure about ‘communications’ between OpenSim and AuroraSim devs. That is, whether code get contributed back and forth, but, yes, Aurora is a fork of OpenSim. From what I understand, Aurora is a complete restructuring of the code, making it more modular. I believe that means that it is also easier to incorporate changes since a dev works on a module rather than the whole of the coding.
It is also a lot easier to configure than OpenSim. There are individual INI files for each module, all of them sitting in one folder, so they are very easy to locate. Another result is that you can have only those features you want. And adding optional modules is also easy, using a command in the console. That uses your systems file locator, too. And adding, modifying, resetting or deleting regions uses a small, basic gui in Aurora.
IARs all load just fine, as do XMLs. I use IARs all the time for my build backups. AuroraSim has its own inter-world travel system called InterWorld Communication, or IWC (needs a catchier name), but it also has an optional HyperGrid module.
One of the biggest problems for Aurora, though, is the lack of viewers that can deal with the variable region size. But time will deal with that, especially as how Kokua will support both OpenSim and AuroraSim.
And OpenSim OARs are a bit tricky to load into Aurora, as those default to the SW corner of any Aurora region over 256×256. I’m working on a method to get around that, though. Due to the differences in region size, I doubt Aurora OARs over the default size would load into an OpenSim megaregion, but I haven’t tried that yet (adds to his To Do List).
With Nova Grid closed and Kitely advancing, though, I’m turning my attention to OpenSim again. No problem with that as Excelsior Station (Aurora) is pretty much complete. And I’ll also have a better understanding of the differences between the two.
Sarge Misfit
13 Feb 12 at 9:20 am
just copy and paste it! i think it’s a good blog post because i understand more about Aurora now (thank you) =)
so then, my conclusion which could be malformed, is that Kitely would have to run two sets of server code. that sounds like a massive bummer to me and more than double the support questions, updating, and who knows what
they’ll have their hands full with full-blown account management which was one beauty of facebook (and Twitter) logins. now they’ll have to answer questions like – i lost my password, my account is missing, blah, blah, blah – which sounds like a really huge drag =(
Ener Hax
13 Feb 12 at 9:22 am
Gaga, I did get a 10,240m x 10,240m region running. Couldn’t build and was barely able to move, but that was mostly due to the limits of my system (single core processor, 1Gb RAM at the time). That’s the equivalent of 1,600 regions!
Sarge Misfit
13 Feb 12 at 9:25 am
Actually Ener, I think var regions might work better for Kitely since it involves just one region. Mega regions are much more complicated I think because they involve many regions to put together.
Gaga
13 Feb 12 at 9:30 am
thanks Sarge, that helps me understand it better. i forgot to throw into the mix that we should start seeing Overte becoming active this summer and that could also be changing the direction, or adding, to this platform issue
i guess i am more resistant to change than i thought (take that you stoopid Borgs!) =D
thanks Gaga and Sarge, i truly value and appreciate your expertise =)
Ener Hax
13 Feb 12 at 9:34 am
OMG Sarge, my maths are crap! I do declare *blushes all lady-like*
For me the big var was fine but I am using a q4 16 gig vp server so, yes, resources do count but you would never be able to run that many sims in a mega region.
Gaga
Gaga
13 Feb 12 at 9:35 am
Gaga, I just wanted to see what was possible :-)
Sarge Misfit
13 Feb 12 at 9:46 am
Gaga yes you should blog it! Good explanation. Thanks Sarge too, very informative (even if it took a “fairly” blonde swedish gal a while to chew through this :)
Mera
13 Feb 12 at 10:02 am
I feel that ventures like Kitely need to stick to their knitting.
While many-regions-in-one will have a place, especially when enthusiasts run themed Worlds, “home bases” will be Kitely’s niche.
Large themed worlds = the larger commercial/Enthusiast website.
Single region homes = the personal blog and photo album.
Ventures like Kitely will stitch these together with links and bookmarks, while hosting peoples “homes”.
Breen Whitman
13 Feb 12 at 12:36 pm
I disagree to some extent, Breen. I think its having the choice is what counts. For me, a single default region size simply is not big enough for what I am doing, which is building a place for people to go and RP without paying huge fees to some corporation. A large region or megaregion is enough to build a small city on.
I see a future where the closed grids will eventually open and will be the equivalent of RL urban centers, people like me will build small “villages” and others will have their “houses”, as well as all sorts of “flavours” in between, with HG playing the role of the “highway” that people will use to travel in between.
Kitely seems to be embracing that. In so doing, they will have a much larger customer base, which then contributes to their longevity as a business.
Sarge Misfit
13 Feb 12 at 12:55 pm
I know I’ll enjoy building my urban sprawl over 100 regions! Woo!
Let’s see how it works: same unlimited access, share credits, hundred bucks a month…100 regions. x12=$1200
…or…
100 regions = $1000 set up fee x100 = $100,000 + $295mox100= 29,500 a month x 12mo = 354,000.
Ilan, Oren and Kitely just saved me 452 thousand eight hundred dollars.
Conclusion? No brainer.
Geico can’t even pull that off.
Virtual Clover
13 Feb 12 at 4:38 pm
Thank you for the endorsement Virtual Clover :-)
Ilan Tochner
13 Feb 12 at 5:07 pm
@Sarge “Kitely seems to be embracing that”
Kitley has an Aurora region option?
Breen Whitman
13 Feb 12 at 10:52 pm
No, Breen, I meant embracing the whole idea of different sized worlds, granting us the choices we want, from the single region “house” to the megaregion “town”.
Whether Kitely adopts Aurora or not is their choice, though I think they should give it a good testing. From what I am experiencing in building an OpenSim version of Excelsior Station, AuroraSim uses significantly fewer system resources. (I’ll be posting details in a day or so)
Sarge Misfit
14 Feb 12 at 12:07 am
Just heard the news – this is AWESOME! I’ve been promoting Kitely to anyone who will listen, but I’ve never been completely comfortable that it was only accessible via FaceBook. I knew other login options were in the works, but it seemed as if they all required accounts on some privacy-invasion site or other (ie. twitter, google, etc).
The email address account opens it to anyone and everyone, now I can fully recommend Kitely with no reservations! Been waiting for this one.
Great work Ilan & Oren!
CiderJack
14 Feb 12 at 4:40 pm
it is great news CiderJack and both you and i now will be able to explore and possibly use this very smart solution =)
Ener Hax
14 Feb 12 at 6:35 pm
This news was enough for me to sign up for Twitter ;-D
Btw, as I said to Breen that I would do, I’ve posted an informal comparison between OpenSim and AuroraSim
http://excelsior-station.wikidot.com/
Sarge Misfit
14 Feb 12 at 6:54 pm
[...] Ener Hax for the heads up about the new Kitely log in: Kitely for the masses? Yes! If you search for “Kitely” in Eners blog you will find a lot of interesting stuff. [...]
What about Kitely? « The Eternal Sunshine of the Metaverse
15 Feb 12 at 6:13 am
One question, if I want to create one free account in kitely, I must have a facebook account?, there is any other way to create an account without having a facebook account ?.
xpontaneus
15 Feb 12 at 3:04 pm
Not yet, xpontaneus, though that’s what this posting is about, the fact that Kitely is about to enable Twitter and email registrations.
Sarge Misfit
15 Feb 12 at 5:05 pm
Thank you CiderJack :-)
It’s taken us a while to finally be able to work on it but we should be open to everyone soon.
Hi xpontaneus,
You’ll be able to open an account that uses the Free Plan with any one of the login options we’ll soon provide: Facebook, Twitter, or email/password.
Ilan Tochner
15 Feb 12 at 9:03 pm
Thanks for the info Sarge and Ilan. I will wait when the new options are enable and I will make a new free account with twitter. It would be nice to try it (and I will write about on my blog!).
Xpontaneus Com
16 Feb 12 at 4:26 pm