that’s a loaded title but as fair a question as any other. this post was sparked by comments on yesterday’s post regarding an article by Maria at Hypergrid Business, Tranquility Dexler’s response to that on the InWorldz news site, and Gaga’s added insight (this post is squarely Gaga’s fault) =p
i read Maria’s piece last week and thought it might be a little presumptuous to give advice to InWorldz but it’s also those types of “harsh” views that can act as one of many barometers for a company like InWorldz to use in feeling the pulse of the community. Maria doesn’t set out to stir the pot and she is a very deep and long-term user of virtual worlds (she also uses VWs as a tool for her international business). she has invested a lot time in creating a reputable blog and she also writes for dozens of real business blogs out there (mainstream business; and she is well respected)
it’s easy to give advice and advice is mostly a personal thing. i personally think that InWorldz’s “walled garden” is one of their strong points. if there was a way to let an avatar hypergrid with only the clothes on their back, then maybe i could see that as a plus. i’d love for people from InWorldz to be able to visit Enclave Harbour but it would be a greater benefit for me than for InWorldz (and not worth the possible security nightmare for InWorldz, imo)
InWorldz is awesome for a community grid and, in my opinion, is far better than Second Life. if, for nothing else, because of people like Tranquility Dexler. he actually cares about the virtual world experience and about the residents of InWorldz. i can’t remember if i ever logged into InWorldz, but Tranq spent a week last summer helping me get Imprudence 1.3.2 running on my home PC. contrast that to Linden Lab and paying them $2,920 a month and blogging very positively about SL and i could not even get M Linden to tweet me a hello (and he had that dipshit Wallace Linden as his communications manager!) =/
InWorldz would be a terrible choice for us because we sit idle most of the time, we don’t want to sell any virtual stuff, we don’t want to be social (bah on people! =p ), and our current “hermit-mode” is perfect for where we are with our first project
luckily, OpenSim gives us options and i can’t speak directly to the InWorldz experience but i can say that Tranquility Dexler is on a very short list of people that i genuinely consider as awesome human beings
I am on InWorldz and can attest to just how positive and encouraging the experience is. And Tranq truly is an awesome person. What is truly amazing though is that he isn’t the only one. Elenia, Legion, Jim and the other founders show as much dedication to the users as Tranquility does. They are all approachable, dedicated and always exercise common courtesy and respect. And its not just them. The volunteer Mentors carry on with that same level of care and dedication and it gets passed on to the rest of the users there.
As for Maria’s article, good show. While people are bashing her credentials, they also sight of something. A reporter reports and a journalist writes. Maria is not a reporter. She wrote an article which brought forth a lot of discussion and debate, both positive and negative. That is exactly what a journalist does. Journalists write about the world around them, sparking the discussions and debates that change the world.
Thanks to her article and the responses it solicited, I and others now have a much clearer picture of what InWorldz has done and is doing.
Sarge Misfit
5 Apr 12 at 7:00 pm
thanks Sarge! that’s a nice insight into InWorldz and an astute observation on Maria’s perspective. Maria is the one who turned me on to OpenSim – if it had not been for her, i don’t know when we would have noticed OpenSim
her perspective of OpenSim shaped my view of OpenSim, even still today
Ener Hax
5 Apr 12 at 7:15 pm
I have to agree that, for your purposes, InWorldz would be the wrong choice. You’re entire project is aimed at grade-school students, which aren’t allowed on InWorldz. That doesn’t mean that at some point down the road, the founders won’t decide to go with another grid running on IW software specifically for education – they might, and with the awesomeness of their tech and expertise it would most likely do well.
Maria’s another matter. This isn’t the first time she’s spread false information and been generally offensive toward InWorldz. It’s also nowhere near the first time she’s been called out on it, and her information corrected. And still, she persists. There are only two possible reasons for this. 1) She is stupid. 2) She is not stupid, and therefore is a liar. Personally, I like option 1 because it’s more fun, but I know the truth is more probably option 2. That’s sad, really, because it’s true that some people actually do still respect her and expect her to report, if not fairly due to her own obvious bias, at least accurately. Instead, she continues to choose to intentionally perpetrate lies in order to sabotage the public opinion of a grid which does not even use the technologies she evangelizes, and therefore does not even fit in the scope of her blog.
InWorldz does what it does extremely well. Nobody ever claimed they would fit for every purpose, and I doubt I’m far off the mark when I say they probably don’t even want to. And yes, Ener, you did log in at least once, I said hi to you at IDI :)
ELQ
5 Apr 12 at 7:17 pm
well, Maria’s no dummy and she’s free to say what she likes and the wonder of the internet is that anyone can always click away from anything they don’t agree with
her post has sparked conversation about InWorldz and that is a good thing – people cae about InWorlz, choices, and our very tiny community – so they speak up
participating in that conversation, just like these comments, has the opportunity to spur our community forward
as for me, this blog is a web log and simply a diary or journal of my experience in the vrtual world and people can do whatever they like with my thoughts (they can even fold, spindle, and mutilate them! =)
Ener Hax
5 Apr 12 at 7:28 pm
I understand that, and I don’t disagree at all. We’ve all (right now, anyway) got the right to say whatever we want on our blogs. And I never said Maria didn’t have that right as well. But when someone positions themselves as an authority in a field, they take on a role that should come with a little more responsibility. The Hypergrid Cult likes to talk about how InWorldz residents get all worked up, but refuse to admit their own part in it. We’re naturally going to fight back when people spread intentional lies about our grid. Balance, accuracy, and inclusiveness are the reasons that whenever someone asks where to find out more about virtual worlds, I always point them to iliveisl.com
ELQ
5 Apr 12 at 7:40 pm
spot on ELQ! passion is something we all seem to have and i believe that people in OpenSim have more passion than most
balance is key and i firmly believe that InWorldz offers a very honest service and let’s rememeber that OpenSim and branches of it are very complex things to run
a shareable 3D tool that renders realtime for 40 people at a time is pretty frigging amazing!
that would be like 40 of us all working on one Word document except make it 3D!
hats off to anyone capable of running it on a large scale like InWorldz!
Ener Hax
5 Apr 12 at 7:51 pm
An observation related to the HGBus News atricle… When blog stats are down, write something to stir the pot up, blog stats go up… Cause & effect hard at work.
A reporter used to have an obligation to report accurate, concise, clear, researched information which is credible, reliable & verifiable (well used to be so but reporters have become quite lackadaisical in recent years).
A Journalist, as Sarge stated reports on their personal experience on the world around them, a subject they have interest in, matters worthy of open discussion or lastly to try and bring point of view to enlighten.
Recently saw someone with a Tag in their signature that says a lot. “Never argue with a fool, other’s won’t know the difference”.
WhiteStar
5 Apr 12 at 8:02 pm
i’m glad i chose to stay out of this one. because maria and tranq and elenia and jim tarber are all my friends. i don’t see this as some kind of battle to win or lose.
Wizard Gynoid
5 Apr 12 at 8:07 pm
Me too, I will stay away all of this. As Wizard Gynoid says “i don’t see this as some kind of battle to win or lose”. I support both virtual worlds and I will stay around there. I have better to see and not to give any opinion.
Xpontaneus Com
5 Apr 12 at 8:22 pm
nicely done WhiteStar =)
Wizard! you came up with the best idea!!! i say each person scripts an NPC and then we build a battle region and drop them in! we can have people place bets with all proceeds going to OpenSim!
well, this is a volatile subject because it is an important one to many. thank goodness OpenSim is important as well as fun
*goes off to build a big battlebot with pink hair & a heavily weaponised parasol!*
Ener Hax
5 Apr 12 at 8:23 pm
LOL if you built that, Ener, I’d definitely wanna buy one! BTW my son LOVED your Tin-Tin rocket!
ELQ
5 Apr 12 at 8:27 pm
you must have read TitTin to your son eh? that’s pretty unusual these days i think (i got subQuark’s childhood Tintin books and many are first editions and they are in french)
tell your son he is a unique and wordly kid! =)
btw, i am going to goof off and build some crazy big weapons including adding a mini-gun to my bulletproof parasol!
Ener Hax
5 Apr 12 at 8:39 pm
Actually, no..he’s all grown up and is way into animation and knows Tin-Tin due to his own habits and hobbies lol..i just happened to be reading your blog when he came over the other day and he saw the picture over my shoulder and made me give him a closer look. He knew what it was all on his own :)
ELQ
5 Apr 12 at 8:47 pm
Use these worlds and this software how you see fit. Do what makes you happy.
Tell the world about virtual worlds and all the good they can do. Mention the one you like, or don’t.
As long as there are more people smiling by the end of the day than there were at the beginning, I am happy.
Tranquillity
5 Apr 12 at 8:48 pm
“each person scripts an NPC and then we build a battle region and drop them in! we can have people place bets with all proceeds going to OpenSim!”
Tala Slade has generously given me the use of a OSG region on one of her servers and I can provide the combat system and plenty of Ugly Sticks :-D
Sarge Misfit
5 Apr 12 at 8:53 pm
Interesting. I now know where ELQ is coming from and why he uses inflammatory language like the “Hypergrid Cult” and calls the supporters of Hypergrid and Opensim Fanatics and fundamentalists. I knew in my bones he had a political agenda when he pathetically crowed about being put off Opensim and Hypergrid by nameless imaginary fanatics he invented.
If anyone demonstrates fanaticism here it is ELQ and, worse, he still can’t help himself calling Maria stupid or a liar when all she did was expressed an opinion for what it was worth. ELQ is the kind of person that gives Inworldz a bad name when others like Tranquility work so hard to make it better.
The two personalities couldn’t be more opposite. Tranquility and others I know from the Inworldz community have had a great influence how I write about that grid now days. I use to be hard on Inworldz but now I take more interest in the community and the creative work going on there rather than finding fault. Then along comes someone like ELQ and reminds me there are still subtle propagandists in the background there. I really don’t want to compare InWorldz with SpotON3D but reading ELQ makes me wonder.
In fact, this has upset me greatly and left me disparing. My relationship with Inworldz had improved to the point I was actually working on an great article about the wonderful experience I had there these past months but now I just feel thoroughly disappointed. ELQ has reminded me why I don’t favor walled garden grids and why I prefer the freedom of a truly open Metaverse.
Gaga
5 Apr 12 at 8:57 pm
That’s actually very interesting, Gaga, since I’ve only expressed the desire to have a choice. I believe anyone coming into Virtual Worlds deserves to have choices in worlds presented to them honestly and accurately by the community at large. My original expression yesterday was only my personal distaste in having a certain way of doing things shoved down my throat. It has nothing to do with propaganda other than a refusal to bow to it. It’s about Freedom.
ELQ
5 Apr 12 at 9:13 pm
don’t despair Gaga =) your views and writing are not diminished by any outside person. only you can do that and i know you won’t let that happen
all i know is that running something like InWorldz is far tougher than anyone can imagine except for those that actually do it
sim-on-a-stick nearly killed me this last time and i probably spent 40 hours just upgrading it – far more than i ever wanted to . . . but thanks to people like WhiteStar, who had more persistence than me, SoaS was updated very nicely with some good advances
SoaS is a truly collaborative thing now, it’s not just me. so if it takes that much out of me to simply make a zipped package, imagine how hard doing InWorldz is!
yoo know, i used to have nice discourses with Prok and even praised her passion many, many times. but once she called me an idot and reverted to denigration, it was over. i can’t help but think that she suffers from paranoid schizophrenia. Prok needs love but i won’t allow myself to be hurt in the process of heralding her – so i simply don’t read her or interact with her anymore – it’s a loss to both of us
okay, everybody hug it out and let me get back to my show of love by building a mini-gun parasol!
Ener Hax
5 Apr 12 at 9:16 pm
derr, i type so sowly that ELQ got in while i was making typos!
Freedom? wazz dat? i’m a socialist french canadian frog!
it’s all good and things that don’t get along are sometimes awesome when mixed – like oil and vinegar!
lol, so who am i calling what? muahahaha, only the winning destructo-NPC bot can decide! =)
Ener Hax
5 Apr 12 at 9:19 pm
@ELQ
With freedom comes responsibility and respect for the views of others without resulting to name calling or placing extreme labels on people to try and marginalizes them.
Maria’s article was not malicious even if it was factually incorrect in all it’s details and she does not deserve to be call stupid or a liar.
She deserves an apology.
Gaga
5 Apr 12 at 9:22 pm
As I stated in our forums.
Much respect to all of you. Life is just too darn short..
I know we all have our different ways of thinking and doing things. But with each and every respondent here there is something of value to be heard.
Tranquillity
5 Apr 12 at 9:30 pm
@Ener
Honey, I do know how hard Tranquility works. I do scripting too and it takes for ever, coding, testing, testing, bug reports, corrections, more testing. Who would be a coder?
Indeed, who would be a coder of a virtual world platform software or TPV viewer. I have so much respect for those guys even if some of them have inflated egos and spill coffee and fag ash all over their keyboards.
But anyway, I do speak my mind and I don’t suffer fools gladly. I have a good memory and read an awful lot. There is not much I miss. But I have learned to temper what I write but stopping to think before hitting the post key. I have so many articles un-published because on re-reading I wondered if I really have my facts right. This is why I don’t actually post many articles to my blog.
I probably still lack confidence but some things I am compelled to say.
Hey, Ener blog is my daily tipple ya’know!
Gaga
Gaga
5 Apr 12 at 9:42 pm
@Gaga, I will apologize, but only to you. Apparently, you’ve been offended by my backlash – which is what I do when people try to force others to follow their way – at Maria (which is what she is always trying to do). Granted, that’s her job, but it doesn’t have to be at the expense of others, nor does it have to include outright lies about someone who chooses something a little different. I never intended to offend you in any way.
A fanatic will try to make everyone else fall in line with their philosophy and practice. I’ve not done this – when have I tried to convince anyone that they should come to InWorldz? Or anywhere else for that matter? The two options I presented as reasons for Maria’s continuation to spread false information about InWorldz are the two logical, tho admittedly simple, conclusions.
It’s true that Maria’s loud extolling of the virtues of Hypergrid were what put me off my hypergrid project – not recently, this was some time ago. I simply didn’t want to be part of that. I have my reasons, and a lifetime of fighting people trying to force me to do what they want their way has created in me a tendency to refuse to do anything in any way that I don’t decide for myself. The only “political agenda” I’ve ever had anywhere is complete freedom for everyone. If this gives InWorldz a bad name, then I’m guilty.
ELQ
5 Apr 12 at 9:46 pm
@ELQ
Thank you but, honestly, I don’t think you owe me that apology. Whatever you think about Maria’s inaccuracies in her article or at other times she has reported on Inworldz, on this occasion she clearly published it as an opinion. I noticed what column it was in if maybe some others didn’t. But anyway, Maria has writen many positive things about Inworldz in the past and she is not wholly focused on Hypergrid as some kind of freebie utopia. Maria promotes business, education and social environments and I value her coverage immensely. All her articles come with a comment section for inaccuracies to be corrected. In fact I think the comments are often more interesting than the article itself.
I love this community. I have made many friends and even one or two enemies. I made up with people I fell out with in the past too because I am sucker for a kind word. That’s all it takes really. I crossed swords with Linda Kellie last year but recently on OSgrid we made up and chatted like nothing had ever happened. She speaks her mind and I respect her for that.
ELQ, it would warm my heart if you said sorry to Maria for the name calling if not for speaking you mind and disagreeing with her.
Gaga
5 Apr 12 at 10:29 pm
So I will say this, I have absolutely no problem supporting any grids wishes to go closed. I honestly have to say I know things have gotten quite heated here, so I am just going to put in my two cents.
First off going to say this, it is a lot harder than you think to run a grid. I am speaking as a grid owner myself, you have any idea how hard it is to keep the regions running, even when no one is on them, wonky things happen. I am sure they are not sitting and twiddling their thumbs. I know InWorldz is a great alternative to SecondLife, but just not for me. I wanted a grid that is different, and has custom things I wanted. See that is what InWorldz has done, they are branching out making their own changes and custom tweaks. Just like my grid is doing, we are inventing a brand new search, pushing mesh to its limits, and the current hypergrid, people think I am mad having hypergrid open, but my residents love it. They want to sell to all the world, and they love how me and my staff have made my grid stable on debian, to fit more sims on the same machine with little to no lag. These are things I want and I know other do too, see their is a grid for everyone, there is no one size fits all solution, that is why choice exists, if you want a great alternative to secondlife, InWorldz is the one I suggest, if you are looking for a bit more with the ability to go places other than just one grid, my grid is where I send them. Its all about choice, and with opensim, you get the nice option of hosting yourself your own grid/standalone if you don’t like anything out there.
Second, I feel people were doing their job when people use constructive critisim. I mean sometimes I feel like maybe more investigation should have been done, but if the article was never written I wouldn’t haven even know about all those features InWorldz offers, I mean its nice to know everything. I am just trying to stay on the bright side of things.
Timothy Vyper
5 Apr 12 at 10:52 pm
@Gaga, I also love this community, this is my RL community and it is extremely important to me. It’s why this last article was the last straw for me. I can no longer direct anyone to look at HGB for information on Virtual Worlds. I just can’t, I can’t trust that the information will ever be accurate or authoritative, and I have no respect at all for Maria anymore..I’m sorry but that’s been a long time coming. I always thought she’d step up and be the person she claimed to be, but I know now that isn’t happening.
As far as name-calling, I’ve only said what I’ve seen. I haven’t said anything that was maliciously false. On that note, though, I never said anything bad about supporters of Opensim OR Hypergrid. I support OS and HG myself..I support any tech that moves Virtual Worlds forward. There is a great distinction between supporting the tech and believing/acting as if any other tech is a threat to be squashed no matter the cost. The latter position is what I was speaking of earlier.
Speaking of squashed, I wanna see pics of the Ener Battle-Bot™!
ELQ
5 Apr 12 at 11:16 pm
Can’t we all just get along?? LOL!!!
Sunny
5 Apr 12 at 11:41 pm
@Sunny I say the same thing!
Timothy Vyper
6 Apr 12 at 12:02 am
llInvokeHornetsNest();
kidding! nice to see peeps being passionate about OpenSims. and i’d be worried if everyone agreed all the time (i think that’s called ‘drinking the kool-aid.’)
just remember, at the end of the day, we’re all made out of the same pixels.
DreamWalker
6 Apr 12 at 12:59 am
“and he had that dipshit Wallace Linden as his communications manager!”
you just made my beer come out my nose!
Breen Whitman
6 Apr 12 at 1:36 am
How many people does it take to say the same thing because over on Hypergrid Business everyone and their cat is dropping in from Inworldz to slam Maria.
I think it is now bullying of the kind political extremists use to silence the opposition. It is that bad and even more disappointing to me personally is that Linda Kellie seems to want to make a new argument with me which would only serve to fuel the drama.
I tweeted as Maria’s article was published she is very brave because I just knew there would be a backlash. Sadly, that is the nature of some (I said some) of the people at Inworldz.
Linden Labs lost another 100 sims last week and surely any sign of the Open Metaverse community tearing itself apart can only be good new to Linden ears.
Gaga
6 Apr 12 at 1:36 am
I guess they saw the response and hadn’t seen the article yet? I really doubt it’s political bullying, tho, Gaga..I mean, people want to have their say. But I swear, I’ve been inworld all night and haven’t said a word about it to anyone, and nobody’s mentioned it to me either.
ELQ
6 Apr 12 at 2:55 am
Ener,
So where is your battle-bot again – The Ener Haxatron!
Eros Deus
6 Apr 12 at 4:01 am
“As long as there are more people smiling by the end of the day than there were at the beginning, I am happy.”
You made my day. Thanks, Tranquillity!
Beacara
6 Apr 12 at 7:21 am
@Gaga…. I am not “from” InWorldz. I don’t log in there. And in answer to your question Maria published false information and apparently does not have the professional ethics to post a retraction. So people are going to call her out on it.
There is nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with someone calling her names such as “stupid” (sorry ELQ but that is true and rather 3rd grade bully tactics and she does deserve an apology for that statement).
Gaga you seem to be right back where you were in just jumping on people for defending InWorldz. Maybe you should look at it this way….. If a company has customers who are this loyal and feel this strongly that they will jump in and defend that company then that company is doing something right. The customer is all that matters in any business. So maybe IW should be giving hypergrid business (Maria) advice instead of the other way around.
And the fact that this has turned into such a massive debate is not a bad thing. This is how people learn. This is how we find out things. There isn’t a thing wrong with passion. And I doubt, very much, that you are going to stop them now any better than when you tried it before.
And posting my name here in your attempt to turn people against me doesn’t bother me at all. If I said anything that you think I should retract then call me on it. I don’t think I bullied but I will be glad to check any postings where you think that I have.
Linda Kellie
6 Apr 12 at 7:25 am
I wish I could say I’m smiling as I turn on my PC today but I’m not. There is a sadness to this whole affair. I thought out little community over here away from SL was doing ok – moving along quite well. I have found friendships in many worldz not least OSgrid and Inworldz and now a feel some of that friendship is being tested to destruction.
Something ugly reared it’s head again and I am not sure I want to be part of it any more.
Gaga
6 Apr 12 at 7:32 am
@Gaga, I am sorry if I made you feel sad. I am a bit sad over this as well. Maria was my friend and someone I respected and trusted. I fully expected that she would handle this matter in a professional way. The fact that this is still going on is due to the fact that she didn’t retract the parts of her article that were not factual. She is going to stand behind it no matter what apparently.
My grandma once said “Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up”.
I still really care for Maria. I just don’t trust her to be a valuable source of metaverse news for me anymore. And “that” makes me sad.
And as far as you and I butting heads…. we have done it before and we will do it again. We simply have different views on some things. I totally respect your right to post your views. And on a personal level I do not feel anything negative towards you. I am sorry to hear that you are sad. Topics like this should be something we learn from and not something that tears friendships apart. I’m sorry that is happening to you.
So for whatever part I played in your sadness I am sorry. I enjoy your posts and your insight and how you spark thought and debate and I still consider you a friend.
Linda Kellie
6 Apr 12 at 8:04 am
@Linda
We both know this has gone beyond what Maria wrote. There is so much mud slinging. Inworldz code is better than Opensim code and no punches are held back – its full on, long winded and, frankly, intimidating.
Yes, I have been there before standing alone as one defending voice but I finally bowed out of that episode last year because after something like 20,000 hits on the topic it was clear the only beneficiary was Avination, whom, ironically, was the subject of the backlash at that time.
I mentioned your name here because you clearly wanted to bring up SLU and I felt that was just an act of stirring the drama pot and I didn’t want to rise to it. My relationship with Inworldz has improved so much since last year and I value it but I will always speak my mind.
Gaga
6 Apr 12 at 8:21 am
@Gaga, I am sorry for bringing up SLU then. It wasn’t meant to have that affect. I was simply trying to find a way to state that I was having a sort of dae ja vue (without having to try and spell it because apparently I can’t.
It just seems like we were back to the same topic with the same lines as we were back then. It was not meant to stir up drama. It was meant to stir up thought (for us both and maybe others).
This just keeps happening. Someone says something about InWorldz that isn’t true and someone else jumps in to defend it and then people start getting upset that it’s being defended.
To me this is not anything more than about what Maria wrote. I don’t see InWorldz as being a better choice than OpenSim. I see them as being a different choice. Better for some and not for others. If it were right for me I would be there. It doesn’t suit my needs. Although my needs are changing so there is a chance I may end up back there someday.
So once again I apologize to you if I offended you or made you sad. I get passionate about this issue. My mental make up won’t allow me to see injustice and not speak up. Sometimes I speak up too loudly and too often. For that I am also sorry.
Linda Kellie
6 Apr 12 at 8:29 am
@Gaga you seriously expect people to apologise for backlashing at Ms. Korolov? I’m not sure if that’s supposed to make me laugh or cry.
She has a right to state her opinion just as everybody else does, I am not denying her that right. But. She presented a lot of misinformation and inaccuracies in her post (not to mention the condescending tone of said post).
She was presented with the real facts. She had a chance to either edit her post or write another one. To my knowledge she did none of that.
Revising the factual bits in her post would be the correct thing to do and I do believe most people would respect her for it. But again, she chose not to.
The bottom line is that I think she is the one who actually owes IW an apology for publishing false stats.
Leanna
6 Apr 12 at 8:34 am
I have to add something.
There shouldn’t be a discussion about which grid is better because discussions of that kind are pointless so I won’t repeat what has been said before.
It should never have turned into an (un)holy grid war.Still, if you publish your opinion you should expect people to publish theirs in response to yours. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to correct false information.
Leanna
6 Apr 12 at 8:37 am
i think our community is doing well and if our biggest issue is “he said, she said” then we are doing very well!
something that may also be happening is the size the OpenSim community is growing to. i know that back in 2004, the Flash ActionScript community was a “perfect” size – the forums were lively and everyone got answers to their questions. but the next year it started to shift, the population had grown and now people were not getting answers and name calling started
maybe we are at that point (hmm, sounds like a topic for today’s blog post!)
Second Life went through this like in 2005 remember?
it was all a big lovefest and everything was rosey – concurrent logins were right around 25-30k. but as it skyrocketed to 80 k in 2007, lots of drama broke out and good people started leaving. sure some of that was Linden policies, but some was growing “too big”, imo
now to speak up for Maria, she has tweeted that she’s had internet issues and i know the area Maria lives in, she is out in the country near the Berkshire mountains, so having connectivity issues is not unheard of. i’ll give her the benefit of the doubt on how she is handling all of this
of course, that’s easy for me to say – i am very isolated with what i do in OpenSim and none of this really affects what i do. but i do know how things like this can have a negative impact and that’s why i had to walk away from SL after having given them about $50,000 (that’s not from me, but through me and the estate, i did not give them $50,000 of my own money but i did buy 20 sims . . .)
so let’s all take a breath and laugh about Breen blowing beer out his nose (i’m pretty juvenile, but that is very funny to me), chuckle at DreamWalker’s llInvokeHornetsNest();, ponder the Ener Haxatron, and heed Sunny’s wisdom of getting along
if that warm fuzzy stuff makes you gag, then you can puke on me if that works (maybe that’s why i carry a parasol!)
we are all humans behind our avatars and miscommunication will always happen (as well as purposeful hate and all the crap that has plagued humanity forever)
but we are all capable of so much more (if anyone knows that secret, please fill me in!) =)
Ener Hax
6 Apr 12 at 8:41 am
@Ener, I like how your brain works \o/ *noms*
Leanna
6 Apr 12 at 9:02 am
Well, I feel I have to apologize for bringing this to your blog, Ener, it wasn’t intentional. Your very good post on Diva’s hypergrid work combined with the stuff going on at Maria’s blog reminded me of my early dealing with hypergrid. Instead of sharing, I should have just left that memory in my head. I don’t regret anything I said, I speak my mind no matter what or where. However, I do wish this subject hadn’t come here.
ELQ
6 Apr 12 at 9:09 am
thanks Leanna, i dunno if it’s my brain or just the way i try to cope with things. i very much appreciate your comments Leanna and believe very much along your lines – there will always be competition between grids just like with car brands (clearly Scion is for the smartest people)
no need to apologise ELQ! i think this is a powder keg issue and needs to be aired and issues are issues, whether in your head or out in the open. i am very guarded when it comes to my expectations of OpenSim – i’m scared to be let down and some of that may be from my SL experience – i wanted so badly for SL to be a part of my life, as in helping both in being a creative outlet and in income!
much of this is uncharted territory as well, like hypergrid and its evolution. i have never even hypergridded!
never apologise for sharing and as far as choice of words, i sure can’t speak to that because i think in french and often translate it into strange ways in english (especially in person with others!)
it is what it is and i love all of you, even dorks like Prok! that’s one weird bird in my book! =)
Ener Hax
6 Apr 12 at 9:42 am
We will now switch this “debate” to the topic of bison versus beef cheeseburgers.
Participants are to supply their own poutine.
Sarge Misfit
6 Apr 12 at 10:00 am
mega words of wisdom Sarge! the same arguments and passion exist for food!
in Cuba they argue about whether the black bean is better than the red bean and get nasty about it!
one group says they eat black beans and feed red beans to the pigs and the other group says the opposite!
Ener Hax
6 Apr 12 at 10:13 am
I like deer cheeseburgers best! Good stuff!
ELQ
6 Apr 12 at 10:13 am
that’s hilarious Ener..now they need somebody in the black bean group to get a brain and say “We’ll give you all our red beans in exchange for your pigs!”
ELQ
6 Apr 12 at 10:17 am
don’t laugh, but when i lived in Texas and taught high school, parents would give me venison from the deer they had shot (i taught at a richy private school). i used to make chili with it
now i have a boss who hunts and he makes chili from his venison and call it “bambili!” *yikes eh!?!*
Ener Hax
6 Apr 12 at 10:18 am
lol I LOVE dear chili! “Both red and black beans, please!”
ELQ
6 Apr 12 at 10:20 am
I would like to say just one thing “We need to be united and not fragmented”. In this ridiculous grid war nobody wins, for my own opinion we need to be together not divided. Inworldz might need to make some small fixes but Opensim it is almost not finished. How someone suggest to other person to make fixes on their product, when the other is still on alpha?. Opensim is a great platform and Inworldz is a great virtual world, but I don’t think to suggest anyone to make fixes when a platform is still on development. If you are sick, can a doctor suggest a medicine which it is still on development?. I don’t think it is not right.
xpontaneus
6 Apr 12 at 10:42 am
Thank you Linda *hugs*
Gaga
6 Apr 12 at 12:26 pm
As I stated on Maria’s blogsite, I have no problem with a person’s opinions, pro or con. What I do have problems with are knowingly inaccurate statements and misrepresentation of fact… which as I told Maria directly, filled her blog post.
Maria claims to be a journalist of some 20 years. That’s fine. But a journalist that sets reality aside for a snipe piece… that’s the things we come to expect from grocery tabloids, not Hypergrid business.
It’s not that Maria makes no valid points. It’s that her article was biased, misrepresentative and not informative. It was, imo (forgive my being blunt) a hack job– and Maria is capable of better.
I told Maria I supported her right of freedom of speech and opinion. I don’t support non-factual pieces designed to just stir controversy. That’s how her piece struck me, how it struck Inworldz, how it struck a lot of peple.
Gaga may consider the responses excessive, negative, lengthy and over the top… but no more so than Maria’s initial post. When a writer takes it upon herself to openly attack a grid in an evidently biased manner (which intent or no, that’s what the post consisted of), she can fully expect passionate and even negative response. No real warrant to complain because her rather negative “opinion” post received negative response in return. If one can’t take the heat… get outta the kitchen. : )
Wayfinder
6 Apr 12 at 4:48 pm
Gaga: “I wish I could say I’m smiling as I turn on my PC today but I’m not. There is a sadness to this whole affair. I thought out little community over here away from SL was doing ok – moving along quite well. I have found friendships in many worldz not least OSgrid and Inworldz and now a feel some of that friendship is being tested to destruction. Something ugly reared it’s head again and I am not sure I want to be part of it any more.”
While we often amiably disagree… with this I fully agree.
As with many here, I think this whole thing was needless. Inworldz is a good grid. OSgrid is a good grid. Bugs or no, lags or no, I’m all for grids external to SL, no matter who they are. I see no need for any reporter to single out Inworldz and openly state they need to change their entire core business plan or they have no future. There was no need for this controversy.
If Maria wanted to comment on where she thought VR should head, she could have done so without singling out and “picking on” Inworldz. Just because she has the right to voice her opinion does not mean it was wise to do so in such a manner. As my parents taught me, sometimes it’s just best to keep one’s thoughts to oneself.
If someone is behaving badly sometimes a public blog can correct that matter. That wasn’t the case here. Inworldz is behaving quite well… by Maria’s own admission. While the article in discussion may well be her earnest opinion, it was filled with misinformation and frankly, didn’t really need to be published. Her choice, but I do agree with you, it has created a situation that would have been best avoided.
Wayfinder
6 Apr 12 at 5:04 pm
The Ener Haxatron Vs Horn-O-matix <—my robot :D
That's how we should do battles on the interwebs YAY!
Eros Deus
6 Apr 12 at 5:21 pm
Can I just say that I am glad this topic got moved over to this blog. On Maria’s page I can never make heads or tails out of which order comments are posted in. I am sure that makes for some confusion and probably leads to some comments that wouldn’t normally appear.
@Wayfinder I love your passion and how you stand up for what you believe. I like reading your posts even if they are the size of a small novel :P You put much thought into what you write and I appreciate that.
Linda Kellie
6 Apr 12 at 5:23 pm
nice Wayfinder and i also agree, but then i typically find something to agree with from everybody (that’s either trying to be Zen-like or just wishy washy on my part)
overall i think our community is doing very well and i also think people can have a bad day, a bad week, a bad month, and that we can easily miscommunicate or miss making our points as well as we did in our head
some people are natural at making eloquent points and for some, it can be a bit tougher (thanks Linda on the blog layout nod, i find that nested comments, like on Maria’s blog are difficult to follow, but that’s me and seems like you too!). all i know Linda is that your actions are what truly speak the kind of person you are and that’s of a wonderful and giving person =)
and you are right Eros, it would be more fun to battle this things out as bots! Horn-O-Matrix eh? muahahaha, let’s rumble! =D
Ener Hax
7 Apr 12 at 8:53 am
Ener — Thanks for your kind words! I did in fact lose my broadband connection early this week, and have been muddling along with mifi until it was turned on. I’ve made three corrections to my original post based on things I got wrong (two by accident — writing mistakes which I fixed right away — one mostly out of forgetfulness). And I’ve approved every comment that came in, so for things that were controversial or one-sided or whatever, there was plenty of opportunity to counter. If there’s anything else factually wrong in my post I’ll fix it as well — actually incorrect, as opposed to debatable.
And no, my blog stats aren’t down — by page views, March was the best month in the history of Hypergrid Business. Ad sales are shot, because I either keep pissing off advertisers, or they go out of business. But slamming another potential advertiser isn’t going to help that, either!
Maria Korolov
7 Apr 12 at 3:33 pm
well there ya go! Maria isn’t a witch after all and doesn’t eat children (maybe furries though, with some saffron, yum)! =)
i don’t see anything wrong with speaking your mind and you are always going to be the one that educated me and subQuark on OpenSim – so we owe you big time for that!
and to spark a big debate like that is a good thing – airing the laundry as you Americans say (in quebec it’s probably an expression deling with beavers or poutine or poutine eating beavers!)
glad your broadband is back and it’s amazing what just a week does as far as things exploding on the web!
your advertisers should not be put off by your writing – you are not a hate mongerer and i’d wanna know what someone sees as a place for improvement in my work (i may not make changes, but seeing from another’s perspective is a valuable tool if you can get your ego out of the way)
big ginormous hugs from me! =)
Ener Hax
7 Apr 12 at 5:03 pm
People who know me will tell you.. I realize that I don’t know squat. I accept that, and it helps me to learn. No matter how much you know or how much you’ve learned there is always someone out there that can teach you something new, or a better way to do what you’re doing.
Our response to Maria was just explaining things that were incorrect or misleading. Just as much as Maria wants to see the metaverse grow, so do we. But it wouldn’t have been fair to ourselves to leave some of what was written stand without a response.
Do I believe she had malicious intent with the article? No. That would’ve generated a different response. She was definitely given the benefit of the doubt.
This is a complex business, in a complex space, running complex software. I don’t expect everyone to understand what we’re doing or why. I do expect that our customers notice that while we’re growing they’re not noticing services degrade. In fact they are hopefully seeing a lot of improvements in the core software and can tell that we’re taking care of their investment.
We may be taking a different path, but I think we all hope for the same thing. I’m not questioning anyone else’s choices, and I think it’s only fair every is given an equal shot to prove themselves, or not.
Tranquillity
7 Apr 12 at 6:24 pm
And this post is like a great movie, Drama, sadness and Happy ending:)
ZZ Bottom
9 Apr 12 at 11:57 am
65,000 users 244 online. ok fact is this and I have convo’s to back it. I have three alts in IW one is used for promotion and teaching RL students. The others are used for fun the one is a RL professor that brings his media class in. so if you know your stuff. and you want to do things don’t go to the grid. I had my students run off trying to come in I have waited for them to come in from other grids to work on the media projects. when a over heated mentor ejects me for talking to a avi about a viewer
issue.
To go in there with a great product just to be banned black listed by the founders old friends that have made strong groups. to have our root prim attached to how ?’
you know I thought it was me and I am sure it takes two but the fact is we push money that way we promote but they don’t want you there . they just want a closed grid. 65,000 avi’s and 244 online you see the return rate. well keeping running my class off and see what the students say because they are the future.
Eric Jones
25 Sep 12 at 2:02 am
hi Eric – i’m not sure what you are saying but it sounds that IW is making it difficult for you to use them for teaching?
my first suggestion will always be to setup your own grid on a server – the best option would be a school server because it would be the cheapest solution. other than that, you could do a server like we do but that would cost $160 a month
probably the best option for you is Kitely! it’s dirt cheap and seems to be ideal for your type of use
Ener Hax
26 Sep 12 at 6:13 pm
Thank you for your reply and your suggestion. Thank you for being professional unlike many forums I have been in.
Adam01time
15 Oct 12 at 10:21 pm
of course Adam =) my biggest issue is making sure i don’t miss anyone!
there are so many different needs out there and many options – matching the two is the challenging part
depending on the nature of your media class, you may not need land at all – if you are doing artistic films (i don’t know the terminology)
just have a copy of Fraps running and film whatever then make the magic happen with editing. i think virtual worlds make a great way to get video footage to work with and messing with editing is, for me, the area i need the most practice with
god luck with your work! =)
Ener Hax
15 Oct 12 at 11:47 pm