when i think about being mainstream, i think accessible to the masses. it’s not about getting the masses to create things in OpenSim or to set up a region – it’s having a means for them to explore your work
to me it’s like Flash – working in the Flash authoring environment with ActionScript is not for the masses but compiled Flash content is (was) mainstream. it’s still how YouTube serves up half its videos
OpenSim isn’t like that – it is somewhat do-it-yourself to create in it and view it. installing software (the viewer) is a massive stumbling block for adoption (even if we think it is easy)
on Public Radio International, someone was talking about technology adoption and using the term “ridiculously simple” meaning that a technology won’t be adopted otherwise. it was in relation to capturing biometric data from clothing (a vest that can measure breathing and collect sleep apnea data or monitor elderly parents). the vest is easy to wear but to collect the data they tried various approaches – installing software, plugging in a USB dongle, or wifi direct to a collection site. the wifi option was the most expensive but was the only one that the user could reliably use
improvements in OpenSim – less lag, lower resource use, and maybe even megaregions – make OpenSim better to use for you and me but it’s a far cry from “ridiculously simple” for mainstream adoption
in your opinion, is this graphic somewhat representative?
I don’t see installing the viewer as a “massive stumbling block for adoption”, Ener. It is, in fact, quite normal. People are very familiar with doing so. Only they usually call it a game, browser or application rather than a viewer. Anyone who doesn’t want to use Internet Exploiter to surf the ‘Net downloads and installs an alternative Internet “viewer”. And consider all those people who purchase their games online. Aren’t those games viewers? They certainly work the same way. Whether you call it a game or a viewer, its still the client-side software that allows people to interact with the server-side virtual world.
What if anyone could develop a client-side for World of Warcraft? And what if that same client’ware could be used to interact with Eve Online and Guild Wars 2 as well as WoW?
This is where we are at with OpenSim and AuroraSim. We can use different versions of client’ware to access and interact with the same virtual world. Yet, we can also use the same client’ware to access different virtual worlds running different server’ware. In other words, you can use Imprudence and I can use Phoenix to enter and interact with InWorldz. Or we can both use Angstrom to enter and interact with Excelsior Station and Enclave Harbour.
The biggest stumbling block is the breaking away from the accepted methods of doing things, the standard viewpoints of how things are supposed to be done. We are not restricting ourselves to the usual way of doing business of limiting ourselves to one piece of software to access one virtual world.
Sarge Misfit
17 Oct 12 at 9:20 am
It is not enough to make it simple. You also have to make it so that the general population can get something out of it. If people don’t want to (or don’t see a need to) use something, no matter how simple you make it, they won’t just use it.
Also, what VWs need to offer is something that is not filled by existing systems. For example: Although VWs offer socialisation, Facebook and other social media already fill these needs.
These needs need to be important enough to make people want to leave the status quo they are in and to learn the new systems and concepts of virtual worlds (they are new to people who have never used them before).
What needs do we think VWs can fill that people have?
Paul
17 Oct 12 at 9:26 am
“The biggest stumbling block is the breaking away from the accepted methods of doing things, the standard viewpoints of how things are supposed to be done.” i think that is kind of the definition of mainstream – even Jibe which only needs a browser plugin struggles
but answering “What needs do we think VWs can fill that people have?” would make that stumbling block less of one and inspire people to try it out
also, like at my day job, the firewall stops me from being able to connect to OpenSim, even Kitely
back to “what needs” – that’s the million dollar question – would an Amazon.com VW work? where i could look at coffee makers in an aisle and also talk live with others looking at them at that same moment?
Ener Hax
17 Oct 12 at 9:33 am
For me it isn’t using the viewer that is the problem. My mother can install Imprudence and she thought the microwave was a bit difficult.
Nor is “installing” software like SoaS or the OpenSIm that’s configured to get you onto OSGrid. Unzip. Click this, then that and you’re set. Well, finding the coordinates you want isn’t a cake walk … granted.
Building .. not so tough. Saving … as long as you can avoid “OutOfMemory” issues (Yea, I’m still in that nightmare with two of my regions of the 25) .. not too too tough.
The problem comes, at least judging from the people I’ve talked to, in getting it “live”. So you can have visitors. For example, I still don’t know exactly how to do that for SoaS, and I am getting to the point I am ready to see about becoming my own little world/grid. I already know my router will have loopback issues …. and that no one in the computer stores knows what the hell I am talking about when I march in and demand a router where I can turn the damn thing off. When I explain it’s a “security” thing, they wonder why I want to be less secure.
I want to keep 1013 (the overall name of my 25 regions) portable. Apparently that means sticking with SoaS, so I’ll stick with SoaS. But how do I get it “live”?
Anyway, I don’t think OpenSIm will become mainstream until it becomes “idiot proof”.
Crystal Brewton
17 Oct 12 at 10:32 am
would this help you hypergrid?
http://iliveisl.com/hypergrid-from-sim-on-a-stick-part-2/
Ener Hax
17 Oct 12 at 10:48 am
I would put Cloud Party about halfway between OpenSim and Farmville, but only if we’re talking about accessing, rather than building. The interface is to my mind tidier, the graphics cleaner, and the firewall problem shouldn’t occur. You do still need to have a suitable browser, but I expect they’ll all catch up.
Admittedly I’ve never used Farmville, I suppose I should give it a try so I know what people are talking about and what they’re used to.
For people who have a real use for OpenSim, it shouldn’t be any harder to learn to use the viewer – and ignore the stuff they don’t need – than it is to learn a word processor. They do need a motivation though.
At the moment, I think the viewer is too feature rich for casual users. It’s like giving them a full copy of Office 2010 when they can barely manage Wordpad. Or introducing Gimp or Photoshop when Picasa is what they need. We also might need to look at how people expect to use an avatar, when they’re used to things like Farmville and Google street view, the Cloud Party people seem to have gone in that direction.
keith selmes
17 Oct 12 at 10:59 am
“would an Amazon.com VW work? where i could look at coffee makers in an aisle and also talk live with others looking at them at that same moment?”
One where you can view the product in 3D and move the viewpoint around, could work. And maybe if the friends or family,or business partners, can see it too and discuss it. That has something going for it.
I am finding I already look at an image on the net, and absent mindedly try to shift it with my mouse and see round the corner – as in Street View or Cloud Party. Doesn’t work, it’s just a borng old 2D image. Silly me.
If Product A was on the net in 3D and Product B was in boring 2D, perhaps I’d buy Product A ? And if the other people are “there” virtually, perhaps we make a buying decision on the virtual spot ?
If you can download a virtual copy of the item and view it in a virtual build of your own home, puts “home shopping” in a new light ?
keith selmes
17 Oct 12 at 11:17 am
Ahhhhh .. I have that PDF on my HD already. Need to try it however. SoaS is still on my 750GB external at the moment, although I may try running it via the new laptop, which has another 85GB available and then current SOAS folder is only 4.24GB or so. I do like to think I don’t need 600+GB to run any version of Opensim.
It’s all moot until I get a router that will solve all loopback problems. It took me over a week to get “live” about 6 months ago, and I almost gave it up.
Crystal Brewton
17 Oct 12 at 11:42 am
I take the view we either need a light weight viewer for mass usage or to get that webGL browser viewer to get Opensim grids seen in a browser for that essential first look view of what an Opensim world looks like, and even examples of what might be done there – role playing, socializing, dressing up, shopping, class rooms, out door events, scenery, sailing – the things we do. But not so detailed that a heavy viewer is needed. Browsing the web and finding Opensim web pages is easy enough but most I have seen are pretty boring and only one I ever saw had a first look window and that was Heritage Key using Unity.
SpotON3D’s browser application which is based on Pelican crossing app’s and others even if they have change it to suit their needs and issue a warning it has a patent pending can be safely ignored really and others can use the original code but it’s actually not too cleaver and basically too heavy for a first look. Unity does it better and eventually, webGL will do it faster with no plugins or downloads at all.
So, what I mean is that we don’t need to worry about the rate at which new people launch their own Opensim worlds, these will continue to open up at a slow but steady pace. Getting people into the worlds to use them and play, whatever is the real challenge and the easier we can make that the more take up there will be. We can draw masses of people from the web and stop bothering with Second Life but we need some basic things to improve. I suggest 6 below but there are more…
1. A lot more quality content, both free and paid for.
2. WebGL 1st look browser for Opensim urgently.
3. A light weight viewer with Grid search if not webGL.
5. An advanced full viewer designed to run Opensim & Aurora.
6. Better Physics in Opensim. (Inworldz now has PhysiX!)
Looking beyond I really think the viewer developers should start working on a more advanced viewer fit for the emerging 3D web. What I mean is a viewer that has switchable modes so people can run games a variety of virtual world’s platforms and other utilities and fully fledged web browser even. But that is for the future. Right now we have plenty of Opensim grids and standalones with people connecting. We really need to tidy up the Metaverse a lot more and make it easily accessible to more people via the web.
Gaga
17 Oct 12 at 11:53 am
Take a look at how Steam and Giant Bomb is presented to gamers…
http://store.steampowered.com/
http://www.giantbomb.com/
People need to be seduced with high graphics and really interesting stuff to get them wanting to check it out. And people need to be in the welcome regions to greet and help them quickly and in a friendly way.
Gaga
17 Oct 12 at 12:04 pm
In my house, you’d have to move the TV down the “easy” list because of all the stuff my kids have plugged into it. Turning it on is getting more and more complicated — there are days when I just go to Hulu.com to catch up on the Daily Show instead of firing up the TV because it’s quicker and easier.
Right now people are downloading WoW because there are no good alternatives if they want to play a really complex game.
Like in the old days, you’d have to install AOL or Compuserve and dial into your account. There was no choice. Once there was a choice — the Web — people dropped their AOL and Compuserve subscriptions like hot potatoes.
As more and more browsers adopt WebGL and HTML 5 and the in-browser experience gets better and more robust and more responsive, then we’ll see more WoW-style heavy-duty games moving to the browser.
Until then, games like WoW and Call of Duty offer a compelling experience, as does Second Life for its users, an experience people can’t get elsewhere and are willing to spend time and money on.
And gaming is clearly a killer app for 3D immersive platforms.
Gaming *might* become a killer app for OpenSim once game developers recognize its low cost but, in general, games compete by being the leaders of technology, not lagging behind it. And an open source, standards-based platform created by committee will lag behind (the way the WWW lags way behind commercial gaming engines and even lagged behind Flash for years).
Right now, I’m hearing that educational and training simulations are the big sellers for OpenSim and similar virtual environments. These customers aren’t looking for the latest and greatest thing, just something that’s good enough, and has the content they need at a reasonable price.
Personally, I think virtual meetings will replace face-to-face to a very large degree in the future, and will become the killer app for general adoption of the metaverse. In many ways, a virtual meeting is very similar to a face-to-face one. You have the sense of a shared experience, and being present in the same space, and you remember the meeting like you would a face-to-face meeting rather than like you would a phone call or a teleseminar. So it will become important for sales and marketing — both consumer and business-to-business — as well as for team building, collaboration, support groups, and clubs.
Maria Korolov
17 Oct 12 at 12:07 pm
A stripped down, basic viewer is a good idea. The future average user will not need to build or make machinima, after all. When it comes to a web-based browser, I still say that we should look more at making the viewer the browser, not the other way around.
But I disagree with there being a need to do something new. Don’t forget, the “Sim” in OpenSim is for simulator. With OpenSim we can do everything that we would in RL, and then some. “OpenSim … like the Real World but more”.
As things stand now, for the average user, you can play John Madden Football, then you shut that down and go to FaceBorg to chat with your football buddies after the game, shut down your browser and start WoW to party with your elven brothers, and so on.
But, with OpenSim, you can do all of that without any starting and stopping of different pieces of software. With one client-side application, you can go play football, with your buddies in the stands cheering you on, then go off to the pub for an after-game virtual pint, IM work about next week’s virtual meeting, stop at the mall for a bottle of Dragon’s Blood wine to share with your elven clan, drop by the racing pits to check up on the crew for tomorrow’s Indy 500 race, and then go home to your quarters on a space station for supper and bed. All without starting and stopping various bits of software. Just one stripped down viewer.
That is probably one of the biggest selling points of OpenSim.
Sarge Misfit
17 Oct 12 at 12:22 pm
i would favor a stripped down client because i have a different need. in my case is it machinima, but more like lite blender or source film-maker. i can program in python as long as i can have addons that i can use in c++. the whole idea is to use opensim+blender for the work flow.
i dont know why people cant use their viewer, even for second life, in most companies except maybe the sysadmin have a block. just like port 80, there should be unblock for 3D servers.
bristle
17 Oct 12 at 2:12 pm
I read this article and the comments with great interest, as the subject is related to a post we published about three weeks ago, where we talked about how virtual worlds uptake into the mainstream could happen through convergence.
I don’t think the adoption of virtual worlds into the mainstream is going to happen when the viewer or the software is made ‘ridiculously simple’. The comment by Maria Korolov about the television and her children reminds us that simplicity is not why television usage is still so firmly in the mainstream. It is not “ridiculously” simple to connect up a disc player, a satellite receiver, a PS3, a keyboard, and even other devices to the television, and have everything happily operating alongside each other. No, it is something else.
iSkye Silverweb
17 Oct 12 at 4:50 pm
“No, it is something else.” nicely put!
i think that may be what we all, including Linden Lab, grasp for yet we don’t really know what “that” is
Ener Hax
18 Oct 12 at 7:31 am
With the striped down viewers, you can get one for mobile devices (I hav. for my Android devices) called “Lumiya” is very cut down and missing the high end abilities of PC based viewers, but this brings the VWs to the mobile market.
Imagine logging into a VW while waiting for a bus or an appointment to chat and build your own region. Or, logging into a VW of a concert you are at and meeting fans from around the world. Or instead of calling up clients on a phone, you log into the VW from your phone or tablet and give them a personal tour of your product lines.
An easy to use and connect viewer for mobile devices could be a killer app for VW.
However, you still need to give people a good reason to want to use the virtual world (although I have given a few ideas above).
Paul
18 Oct 12 at 7:43 am
This conversation is really interesting, because I thought we were about the only people in favour of a stripped-down viewer, and now I can see I am completely wrong.
Last year we stripped down Imprudence so that it had almost no interface but we stumbled at the final hurdle and the course I was leading ran out of time. The final hurdle was the fact that we could not figure out how to get Imprudence to carry its settings with it like a portable app, and nor could we convince it to adopt the customised interface as its default. And the Imprudence team, quite reasonably, didn’t answer our mails.
The result was a viewer with a nice minimalist interface that unfortunately required you to copy and paste the settings files into the user’s system folder before they could use it. Not exactly a scaleable solution :)
If I could think of a way of making it sharable then I would share it – LOL
Owen
Owen
19 Oct 12 at 10:48 am