a handful of people have tried to create a Mac version of sim-on-a-stick but have run into various impasses. i even tried, which is laughable because i might have a total of 20 minutes Mac experience, and came across an issue when trying to get MAMP running
MAMP is Mac, Apache, MySQL, and PHP and is equivalent to WAMP (Windows, Apache, MySQL, and PHP done via MoWeS for SoaS). MAMP and WAMP basically turn a USB stick into a server (not the same as a live USB which contains an entire operating system)
past attempts have gotten close but never quite made it – that may change now with Kat Prawl!
she’s quite talented and very persistent which makes for an awesome combo!
there’s a wiki page up that might serve as a great collaborative place for Mac experts to put all their apples in one basket (sorry, couldn’t resist)
good luck, there are many out there, especially teachers that would love it and thus benefit a whole bunch of kids! =)
Hey what about a linux version ? :D
Xpontaneus
14 May 12 at 2:03 pm
Linux is 4.9% of all OSs and Mac is 9.3%, so if we can’t find a Mac guru, how are we gonna find a Linux one? that’s really getting into a niche group!
Linux people who do OpenSim and want it on a stick!
now the way to go for Linux would be as a Live USB! =)
since Linux is open source, making a Live USB is practical and would be awesome for running OpenSim on
Ener Hax
14 May 12 at 2:11 pm
yes but you can get linux for free and run in your own machine. So there’s not exception, the you become a linux guru too!
:D
Xpontaneus
14 May 12 at 3:00 pm
Doesn’t USBWebserver run on Linux? http://www.usbwebserver.net/en/index.php
ELQ
14 May 12 at 4:18 pm
Learning Linux is on my To Do list.
Sarge Misfit
14 May 12 at 4:56 pm
I’m not sure that the typical Linux user would have much trouble putting opensim on a stick (we are a geekie lot). Linux can run Apache, Mysql, C+, Php and all that locally with ease. So, I’ve not needed a sim on a stick. The Puppy linux distro (puppylinux.com), and OpenSim would likely run just fine on a stick though, and you could pass the entire os and everything around to where-ever, and people could just boot to the usb stick. No Operation system even needed (just the knowledge on how to boot to a removable drive at startup).
Araxie Longoar
14 May 12 at 5:25 pm
If someone does set up a boot-from-USB Linux SoaS, I’d grab a copy for sure. Especially if I could ‘fiddle’ with it, might be a good step for me to learn Linux.
hmmmm …. I wonder if I could copy such a thing to a separate partition and then boot from that …
Sarge Misfit
14 May 12 at 6:10 pm
I’ve spent many hours … far too many… looking for a MoWeS type of system for Linux & Mac. There are no readily available “packageable” products that will do what MoWeS does the way it does it.
Linux & Mac are quite capable of running Apache, PHP, MySql etc but there just does not seem to be any readily avaiable system like under windows. There are a couple of products which could do it BUT… there it is…. They cost $$$ and not redistributable therefore they are a No Go for SOAS.
Your numbers as to OS distribution is pretty much on the button, going from Windows, Linux then lastly Mac.
The biggest issue with Nix/Mac is the flavours, none are equal and each have their own “quirks” which need to be accounted for, making it a pain to build a Multi-Package.
Hope it helps.
WS
WhiteStar
14 May 12 at 6:12 pm
Wow, thanks for the kind words, Ener. Now to see if I can deserve them… Your idea of using MAMP was the breakthrough I’ve been looking for, or at least I hope it is. If it works, and I think it will, you get the credit. Of course, with MacOS you won’t get the OS on the USB, but everything else (except Mono, which still has to be installed on the host machine) ought to run fine there. I’ll let you know!
Kat Prawl
14 May 12 at 8:52 pm
w00t! that would be so great Kat! so if it goes well -> install Mono 2.10 Runtime (?) on any host Mac wanting to run it and then a similar deal as the Windows SoaS where all else is on the stick
looks like the Mono dmg is 85 mb. so that could be part of the actual stick package, just needs to be installed on the machine first
if that’s the flow, that would be pretty attractive to users. i still get a large number of Mac folks hitting the sim-on-a-stick site – about 20%
some great points WhiteStar – looks like MAMP can be redistributed but MAMP Pro is $59. hopefully the regular one can do it and i think the overall package would be larger than the Win SoaS (especially if Mono gets tossed in)
if you get it going Kat, i certainly would be glad to be a mirror site for it from simonastick.com, i have the space and bandwidth
good luck! =)
Ener Hax
14 May 12 at 9:58 pm
Hey Sarge if you need some help learning linux, just ask. I am not a Linux Guru but I know a lot about it, and yes you can run linux on a USB Stick it would be better if you want to learn first and then you can install in a harddisk. If you need any help, just ask!
xpontaneus
15 May 12 at 12:50 am
Btw WhiteStar, in some point you are right but there are many flavours of Linux which I always considered that as a disadvantages because it can makes people to get confused, there is one mac flavour (one os) and many Unix BSD(Which is MacOSX is based from)versions. But anyway as there are many flavours of linux there are many opensim grids too.
xpontaneus
15 May 12 at 12:56 am
The more operating systems sim on stick can reach the best for All!
ZZ Bottom
15 May 12 at 4:07 am
I looked through the wiki. Has anyone considered WINE, I rembered that it runs on both Mac OS and Linux?
joe
15 May 12 at 5:17 am
I’ve always preferred linux but must use Windows for work and I’ve been planning to put a linux drive on my good machine but just haven’t had time. Guess I might take a crack at this SoaS on Linux dealio, so I can actually see what the problem is.
ELQ
15 May 12 at 7:09 am
@Ener
I would not drop MONO into SOAS as part of the regular distro. The soas script should poke the operating system and determine if mono is installed or not and if not then run a script to download and install it. Mono is going to be the really tricky part because it has to be installed and it is very dependent on what distro of Linux is running.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been any people having issues because they have an old version of Net Framework, as OpenSim must have Net Framework 3.51 or better to operate under Windows.
WhiteStar
15 May 12 at 7:13 am
Yes, Wine works on most Unix Systems and even from mac. I can make you run some windows apps and games. I have tried but works better with small applications. Any speaking about Os Windows 7 is great, I think one of the greatest windows version in all time!.
Xpontaneus
15 May 12 at 7:23 am
Thanks, xpontaneous. Its more a matter of making time than anything else. If I can do that, you can count on me getting in touch. I do have a year old copy of Ubuntu and Debian. And an old XP machine that is just sitting. hmmmm ….. (notices a faint odor of burning wood …. ) And finding all those thigns that are needed, like Mono (thanks for pointing that out Whitestar)
I have copies of BackDraft, which sets up as a bootable disc, so its not a leap to setup USB the same way.
Net 3.5 is used/needed by so many things that everyone has installed it if it didn’t come installed already. Even XP users, or they wouldn’t be able to run many programs that they have.
I have Win7 on my server’side machine (Vista on this one) and there are issues with it. But its more along the lines of other software not liking it. Off the top of my head, some textures got blanked when I put my at-home copy of the Station on the Win7 machine, but the copy that is still on my Vista machine is just fine.
Sarge Misfit
15 May 12 at 8:27 am
dang WhiteStar! that is complicated and way, way over my head! (especially since the only Apple thing i have is an old 3rd gen iPad nano that i never use)
and as far as any poking goes, i’ll leave that up to you and others! =D
Ener Hax
15 May 12 at 8:52 am
I would say peoples average implementation experience of SoaS on different platforms would roughly follow this:
How to run SoaS on Windows, Mac, and Linux
Breen Whitman
15 May 12 at 2:01 pm
@ Sarge. Windows up till Vista SP2 only came with Net Framework 2.0. After that net Framework 3.5 was there as an optional update. Most Windows Apps do not use Net Framework so it does not have to be there… although that is changing now with more web enabled / enhanced apps being put out.
@Ener, the issues with dependencies like Net Framework & MONO for Nix/Mac machines are there… regardless if running from a stick or what have you, the dependencies have to be installed into the operating system as they are bound to the operating system, and this is where the “Gotcha’s” live.
Additionally with MONO there are a few minor adjustments for threads that need doing in the initial bash start script, just like I had to do with the MySql additions for max_packets.
There are several things to consider on how this should be implemented and how to handle the dependencies. Some will have to be forced in order to use OpenSim other’s are just Nice to haves (which for SOAS is not a major issue at all). Also one must think on which variety of MONO to install and it is generally accepted that Mono-Complete or Mono-Dev are the ones to use because they have all the extras needed to operate OpenSim fully.
I’ve been there & done it and suffered the pains of automating all this and I am certainly not about to revisit the MONO battles again. It can be done but will take a lot of dedicated effort and a heap of testing across various flavours of Nix / MacOS to ensure that it works on the Lowest Common Denominator systems.
WS
WhiteStar
15 May 12 at 2:53 pm
lol Breen! that’s how i spent my summer week vacation last year! Tranq helped me out but i totally reformatted my machine!!! all to run Imprudence 1.3.2!!! =D
hey there WhiteStar, your insight and wisdom is very well appreciated by me – your work on my birthday weekend on the SoaS batch file was at my technological envelope edge!
i think as the Mac SoaS version progresses, the main players will hit those same boundaries and need to make their own decisions as to how much they can, or are willing to, do
the current simonastick.com offering is at my edge and while much more could be done to it, it works pretty easily and is something i can update. but it is at its threshold and any greater complexity would probably kill it. i’ve done four updates on it in the last year and with my balance or work, home, school, and freelance – that’s the max i can do
so i hear you and appreciate the “battle” aspect! and thanks WhiteStar for continuing to be an inspiration and helping guide many of us down the virtual path =)
Ener Hax
15 May 12 at 3:08 pm
@ Ener: All paths virtually lead somewhere… just might not be the expected destination ;)
WhiteStar
15 May 12 at 4:22 pm
*holy kaw! WhiteStar just said we are lost in the woods!*
that is very Zen of you and there is quite a bit of wisdom in that approach with computer tech as i have been learning deeply in the last month with real-world projects! =)
Ener Hax
15 May 12 at 4:47 pm
Ohhh My Ener….
Never Ever Lost… just on “Extended Tour” or “Sight seeing”
It’s kinda like looking for the Right Poutine in it’s natural habitat! PS: Watch out for Wild House Hippo’s if you wander into the wrong spaces…. giggles
WhiteStar
15 May 12 at 5:38 pm
Hi Sarge, well… speaking about server side, If you want a really good server for Opensim or aurora then I suggest Debian Linux which is the most robust distro of them all but also the most “less friendly” user experience. But if you want linux as a desktop then ubuntu or linuxmint (which is easier to install). If you need advices just tell me about.
Regards
Manuel
xpontaneus
16 May 12 at 4:00 am
okay, one of you must know the answer to this
over on this post, http://iliveisl.com/sim-on-a-stick-on-a-mac/ there is a person trying to run SoaS on a Mac that has two HDs – one is Mac OS and the other is Windows 64-bit
i think it won’t work because even though it has a fully separate Win HD, the machine still boots as a Mac – does that seem right?
for example, i have two HDs on my box at home and each has their own OS (one does not update just because the other one did) and that allows me to have an “independent” HD free of bloatware and no virus stuff just for virtual world building. even though it’s separate, it still relies on the primary HD in some manner (even if i can’t tell it does)
so a Mac motherboard with two HDs won’t run SoaS on the Win HD because it’s still a Mac box?
Ener Hax
16 May 12 at 8:16 am